This morning I decided to try the various desktop environments available to me, just to see how I react to each. Now nothing I am going to say is designed to knock any particular environment. By now everyone knows I have a number of complaints about Gnome 3.
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly got lost in both. In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name) to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white background. I could never get any of the Background Images displayed in the Background program to actually appear as backgrounds. I managed to put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option in a panel. The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
In KDE I also had problems. I could not find a way to get a Home filesystem displayed so I could find a file I wanted to edit. I could not get Rhythmbox to play . I had to use KsCD. Just now I found the FileManagwer so scratch that problem. Once I found the FileManager I found how to eject the Disk. A process that had eluded me for awhile. Logging out and shutting down under Leave is as cute as the Gnome having those options under the user name (+ Alt key), and equally obscure for the first time user.
My point is all these DEs have things you can do which are hard to find for the first time user. I may admit that Gnome 3 may be the most obscure but not by much. In each case, some time must be spent initially to figure out how to do things.
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 11:11:38 -0500 Aaron Konstam wrote:
In each case, some time must be spent initially to figure out how to do things.
For great fun, try running ubuntu unity: It has drunk the mac koolaid and moved the menubar out of all the apps, but to make things even more interesting, it has also made the one menubar shared by all the apps invisible. It doesn't appear till you mouse over it, so if, for instance, you are looking for the "File" button in firefox, good luck finding it :-).
As near as I can tell the only thing unity is good for is making gnome 3 look like a brilliantly well designed, wonderful interface.
Aaron Konstam <akonstam <at> sbcglobal.net> writes:
... So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly got lost in both.
Will try to help :-)
In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name) to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white background.
LXTerminal. start it Edit-Preferences click Background, move Opacity slider to the very right (transparency OFF) select Color name for your background OK click Foreground select Color name for your foreground OK OK
Yes, the trick with Opacity caused me some grief too ...
I could never get any of the Background Images displayed in the Background program to actually appear as backgrounds.
Fedora menu - Preferences - Desktop
Yes, there seems to be a problem (here in F15) - file BZ report.
I managed to put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option in a panel.
Right click on panel select Add/Remove Panel Items on Panel Applets on right side press Add from Add Plugin To Panel scroll down, select Application Launch Bar, press Add, this placed it at bottom of Panel Applets select Application Launch Bar, on right side press Edit, which should open a window for Applications selections in available applications expand System Tools, click on XTerm, press Add, and this will place XTerm in Applications you can repeat the above step for other apps as well, and order them with Up and Down then click Close to close Applications Selections window back to Panel Preferences, click on Application Launch Bar, and click on Up as many time as you wish to move it to a desired position, e.g. below Minimize All Windows click Close Your Application Launch Bar with XTerm should be on left of the panel.
Btw, I believe it is very similar to XFCE.
The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
Click Fedora menu in left corner of the panel click Logout click Shutdown
Why ? No problem.
KDE ? I left it some 10 years or so ago (too resources hungry, too "heavy", too different soul).
... In each case, some time must be spent initially to figure out how to do things. ...
Yes, it applies to every DE, but some are more intuitive than others. JB
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 17:49 +0000, JB wrote:
Aaron Konstam <akonstam <at> sbcglobal.net> writes:
... So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly got lost in both.
Will try to help :-)
In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name) to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white background.
LXTerminal. start it Edit-Preferences click Background, move Opacity slider to the very right (transparency OFF) select Color name for your background OK click Foreground select Color name for your foreground OK OK
Yes, the trick with Opacity caused me some grief too ...
You are right opacity tripped me up.
I managed to put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option in a panel.
Right click on panel select Add/Remove Panel Items on Panel Applets on right side press Add from Add Plugin To Panel scroll down, select Application Launch Bar, press Add, this placed it at bottom of Panel Applets select Application Launch Bar, on right side press Edit, which should open a window for Applications selections in available applications expand System Tools, click on XTerm, press Add, and this will place XTerm in Applications you can repeat the above step for other apps as well, and order them with Up and Down then click Close to close Applications Selections window back to Panel Preferences, click on Application Launch Bar, and click on Up as many time as you wish to move it to a desired position, e.g. below Minimize All Windows click Close Your Application Launch Bar with XTerm should be on left of the panel.
The above procedure works. But how would anyone figure that out. Could it possibly be more obscure?
Btw, I believe it is very similar to XFCE.
The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
Click Fedora menu in left corner of the panel click Logout click Shutdown
Why ? No problem.
It is not to big a problem. But being simple minded I want an entry called Shutdown. To me Shutdown is not a subset of logout. Maybe it is just me.
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:01:51 -0500 Aaron Konstam wrote:
It is not to big a problem. But being simple minded I want an entry called Shutdown. To me Shutdown is not a subset of logout.
Yea, this has crazy variants everywhere. To me, restart is not a variant of shutdown either, yet the vast majority of menu configs seem to want me to click shutdown so I can then click restart. More often than not, I avoid the menus completely and just type "reboot" in a terminal (now all the sticklers can tell me reboot is totally unsafe and I should be typing shutdown -r :-).
On 09/26/2011 12:13 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
Yea, this has crazy variants everywhere. To me, restart is not a variant of shutdown either, yet the vast majority of menu configs seem to want me to click shutdown so I can then click restart.
It could be worse. You could have to click on Start to get to the shutdown menu.
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 12:49 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 12:13 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
Yea, this has crazy variants everywhere. To me, restart is not a variant of shutdown either, yet the vast majority of menu configs seem to want me to click shutdown so I can then click restart.
It could be worse. You could have to click on Start to get to the shutdown menu.
Now lets not be mean to MS:-)
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 11:43 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 09:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly got lost in both.
Try XFCE. You may find it easier to use, and in any case I'd be interested in your opinion of it.
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able to change the backgrounds. I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is life.
On 26/09/11 16:19, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 11:43 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 09:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly got lost in both.
Try XFCE. You may find it easier to use, and in any case I'd be interested in your opinion of it.
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able to change the backgrounds.
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc.
Bob
I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is life.
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. Bob
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
On 26/09/11 16:48, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. BobThe problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
We all have different preferences. One of the first things I do is remove any background images, replace with solid color, blue usually #0000ff. As a result I have never investigated the images offered.
Bob
On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. BobThe problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones from the list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - The world is coming to an end ... SAVE YOUR FILES!!! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 14:08 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. BobThe problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
You are, of course, correct. But what does not work is the standard: Preferences-> Desktop -> Background which works in Gnome. Probably that is strictly for Gnome.
I also enjoy the rather "frightening" screensaver display in XFCE.
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 09:44 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 14:08 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. BobThe problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
You are, of course, correct. But what does not work is the standard: Preferences-> Desktop -> Background which works in Gnome. Probably that is strictly for Gnome.
OK, I blew it. In Gnome 3 you change the background by going to the Background application. So I don't know where the Preferences-> Desktop -> Background comes from in XFCE and LDXE but in any case it does not work.
On 09/27/2011 08:00 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 09:44 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 14:08 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. BobThe problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
You are, of course, correct. But what does not work is the standard: Preferences-> Desktop -> Background which works in Gnome. Probably that is strictly for Gnome.
OK, I blew it. In Gnome 3 you change the background by going to the Background application. So I don't know where the Preferences-> Desktop -> Background comes from in XFCE and LDXE but in any case it does not work.
It works fine for me on XFCE. The only thing I've found that doesn't work is removing a wallpaper from the list (the "-" button never comes alive--at least not for me). Yes, I've squawked it to the developers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - If this is the first day of the rest of my life... - - I'm in BIG trouble! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 09/27/2011 08:00 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
OK, I blew it. In Gnome 3 you change the background by going to the Background application. So I don't know where the Preferences-> Desktop -> Background comes from in XFCE and LDXE but in any case it does not work.
For me, at least, the easiest way to do that in XFCE is right-click on the Desktop and select Desktop Settings from the context menu.
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Joe Zeff joe@zeff.us wrote:
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
That is not correct. Just click on the + button below the shown wallpapers, this will present you a file chooser dialog.
On Mon September 26 2011, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to change color, image, etc. BobThe problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one. Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Incorrect. You can use the "+" button below the list of images to search for new images that are not listed.
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able to change the backgrounds. I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is life.
I agree with this above assessment, even though I am currently an LXDE user.
LXDE, however, satisfies my requirements, and I don't mind having to find stuff, or programming it through configuration files. It appears to be more of a cross between a full-blown DE and a WM-environment. (I am a late migrant from fvwm through XFCE to LXDE.) Of some concern is the fact that one of the LXDE components (lxpanel) is currently unmaintained.
There have been quite a bit of discussion on the web on the pluses and the minuses of Gnome3. I have not used it, and do not intend to. I used fvwm for a long time (from 1998 to 2007) when I gave up on it, and moved to XFCE which I used for another couple of years until LXDE came around. (On the way from fvwm to XFCE, I spent time on Gnome2 -- or whatever it was in 2009 -- for one day, and promptly gave it up because I did not feel it added to much for me.)
I have fond feelings for fvwm, however I moved simply because many of the applications in Fedora would increasingly have needless (some still do) gnome dependencies. (I think they have done a better job cleaning it up some.) In fact, to me, the real discussion should be not on the pluses and minuses of Gnome2 vs 3, but whether the base distribution should be so tied in so deeply to something so radical. (Note that libnotify does not work in F15 as a result to changes in the base package, or so I have been led to believe. Yes, there is a workaround, install xfce4-notifyd, but this is some strange solution if you do not want a XFCE spin.) I happen to believe not, but maybe there can be other views of this.
Of greater appeal to some, including me, would be if there could be a Fedora spin using a non-desktop environment such as fvwm (or something similar). That would be quite beneficial to at least some of us users welded to the past...:-)
Many thanks and best wishes, Ranjan
On Mon September 26 2011, Aaron Konstam wrote:
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able to change the backgrounds. I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is life.
Right-click on the desktop, select "Desktop Settings." How hard is THAT to change the desktop background? Then just click on the "+" below the window after selecting "single image" and voila, you've got your favorite image as your desktop window. :D
On 09/26/2011 11:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
This morning I decided to try the various desktop environments available to me, just to see how I react to each. Now nothing I am going to say is designed to knock any particular environment. By now everyone knows I have a number of complaints about Gnome 3.
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly got lost in both. In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name) to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white background. I could never get any of the Background Images displayed in the Background program to actually appear as backgrounds. I managed to put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option in a panel. The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
In KDE I also had problems. I could not find a way to get a Home filesystem displayed so I could find a file I wanted to edit. I could not get Rhythmbox to play . I had to use KsCD. Just now I found the FileManagwer so scratch that problem. Once I found the FileManager I found how to eject the Disk. A process that had eluded me for awhile. Logging out and shutting down under Leave is as cute as the Gnome having those options under the user name (+ Alt key), and equally obscure for the first time user.
My point is all these DEs have things you can do which are hard to find for the first time user. I may admit that Gnome 3 may be the most obscure but not by much. In each case, some time must be spent initially to figure out how to do things.
Until the bugs that break Gnome shell are fixed for me (alt-tab crashes it), I'm using XFCE. It works really well.
-
Aaron Konstam -
Bob Goodwin -
JB -
Joe Zeff -
John Aldrich -
Ranjan Maitra -
Rick Stevens -
SternData -
Suvayu Ali -
Tom Horsley