11:11 a.m.
This morning I decided to try the various desktop environments available
to me, just to see how I react to each. Now nothing I am going to say is
designed to knock any particular environment. By now everyone knows I
have a number of complaints about Gnome 3.
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly
got lost in both. In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name)
to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white
background. I could never get any of the Background Images displayed in
the Background program to actually appear as backgrounds. I managed to
put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option
in a panel. The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
In KDE I also had problems. I could not find a way to get a Home
filesystem displayed so I could find a file I wanted to edit. I could
not get Rhythmbox to play . I had to use KsCD. Just now I found the
FileManagwer so scratch that problem. Once I found the FileManager I
found how to eject the Disk. A process that had eluded me for awhile.
Logging out and shutting down under Leave is as cute as the Gnome having
those options under the user name (+ Alt key), and equally obscure for
the first time user.
My point is all these DEs have things you can do which are hard to find
for the first time user. I may admit that Gnome 3 may be the most
obscure but not by much. In each case, some time must be spent initially
to figure out how to do things.
--
=======================================================================
The shortest distance between any two puns is a straight line.
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam(a)sbcglobal.net
2:49 p.m.
On 09/26/2011 12:13 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
Yea, this has crazy variants everywhere. To me, restart is not
a variant of shutdown either, yet the vast majority of menu configs
seem to want me to click shutdown so I can then click restart.
It could be worse. You could have to click on Start to get to the
shutdown menu.
3:48 p.m.
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
change color, image, etc.
Bob
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with
the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
4:08 p.m.
On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
> change color, image, etc.
>
> Bob
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with
the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings
and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of
images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background
image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
from the list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks(a)nerd.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- The world is coming to an end ... SAVE YOUR FILES!!! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
9:38 p.m.
On Mon September 26 2011, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
> change color, image, etc.
>
> Bob
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with
the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Incorrect. You can use the "+" button below the list of images to search
for new images that are not listed.
6:51 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Joe Zeff <joe(a)zeff.us> wrote:
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're
stuck with
the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
That is not correct. Just click on the + button below the shown
wallpapers, this will present you a file chooser dialog.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
12:42 p.m.
On 09/27/2011 08:00 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
OK, I blew it. In Gnome 3 you change the background by going to the
Background application. So I don't know where the Preferences-> Desktop
-> Background comes from in XFCE and LDXE but in any case it does not
work.
For me, at least, the easiest way to do that in XFCE is right-click on
the Desktop and select Desktop Settings from the context menu.
12:25 p.m.
On 09/27/2011 08:00 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 09:44 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 14:08 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
>> On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>> On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>>>> If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
>>>> change color, image, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>> The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck
with
>>> the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
>>> Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
>>
>> Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings
>> and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of
>> images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background
>> image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
>
> You are, of course, correct. But what does not work is the standard:
> Preferences-> Desktop -> Background which works in Gnome. Probably that
> is strictly for Gnome.
>
OK, I blew it. In Gnome 3 you change the background by going to the
Background application. So I don't know where the Preferences-> Desktop
-> Background comes from in XFCE and LDXE but in any case it does not
work.
It works fine for me on XFCE. The only thing I've found that doesn't
work is removing a wallpaper from the list (the "-" button never comes
alive--at least not for me). Yes, I've squawked it to the developers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks(a)nerd.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- If this is the first day of the rest of my life... -
- I'm in BIG trouble! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
10 a.m.
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 09:44 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 14:08 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
> On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> > On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> >> If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
> >> change color, image, etc.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with
> > the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
> > Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
>
> Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings
> and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of
> images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background
> image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
You are, of course, correct. But what does not work is the standard:
Preferences-> Desktop -> Background which works in Gnome. Probably that
is strictly for Gnome.
OK, I blew it. In Gnome 3 you change the background by going to the
Background application. So I don't know where the Preferences-> Desktop
-> Background comes from in XFCE and LDXE but in any case it does not
work.
--
=======================================================================
Excessive login or logout messages are a sure sign of senility.
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam(a)sbcglobal.net
9:44 a.m.
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 14:08 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:48 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>> If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
>> change color, image, etc.
>>
>> Bob
>
> The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with
> the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
> Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
Not true. In XFCE, right click on the desktop, go to Desktop Settings
and the background tab. Click on the big "+" sign below the list of
images and you get a filesystem browser to go find your background
image and add it to the list. The "-" will allow you to delete ones
You are, of course, correct. But what does not work is the standard:
Preferences-> Desktop -> Background which works in Gnome. Probably that
is strictly for Gnome.
I also enjoy the rather "frightening" screensaver display in XFCE.
--
=======================================================================
The steady state of disks is full. -- Ken Thompson
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam(a)sbcglobal.net
5:57 p.m.
On 09/26/2011 11:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
This morning I decided to try the various desktop environments
available
to me, just to see how I react to each. Now nothing I am going to say is
designed to knock any particular environment. By now everyone knows I
have a number of complaints about Gnome 3.
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly
got lost in both. In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name)
to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white
background. I could never get any of the Background Images displayed in
the Background program to actually appear as backgrounds. I managed to
put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option
in a panel. The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
In KDE I also had problems. I could not find a way to get a Home
filesystem displayed so I could find a file I wanted to edit. I could
not get Rhythmbox to play . I had to use KsCD. Just now I found the
FileManagwer so scratch that problem. Once I found the FileManager I
found how to eject the Disk. A process that had eluded me for awhile.
Logging out and shutting down under Leave is as cute as the Gnome having
those options under the user name (+ Alt key), and equally obscure for
the first time user.
My point is all these DEs have things you can do which are hard to find
for the first time user. I may admit that Gnome 3 may be the most
obscure but not by much. In each case, some time must be spent initially
to figure out how to do things.
Until the bugs that break Gnome shell are fixed for me (alt-tab crashes
it), I'm using XFCE. It works really well.
--
-- Steve
5:30 p.m.
On Mon September 26 2011, Aaron Konstam wrote:
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in
a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able
to change the backgrounds. I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find
it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with
LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is
life.
Right-click on the desktop, select "Desktop Settings." How hard is THAT
to
change the desktop background? Then just click on the "+" below the window
after selecting "single image" and voila, you've got your favorite image as
your desktop window. :D
4:04 p.m.
On 26/09/11 16:48, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
> change color, image, etc.
>
> Bob
The problem is there's no way to browse for an image, you're stuck with
the stock ones unless you know where they're stored and add another one.
Personally, I use wallpapoz and let them shift at random.
We all have different preferences. One of the first things I do
is remove any background images, replace with solid color, blue
usually #0000ff. As a result I have never investigated the
images offered.
Bob
3:35 p.m.
On 26/09/11 16:19, Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 11:43 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 09/26/2011 09:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
>> So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly
>> got lost in both.
> Try XFCE. You may find it easier to use, and in any case I'd be
> interested in your opinion of it.
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in
a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able
to change the backgrounds.
If I understand, right click on desk top or terminal to
change color, image, etc.
Bob
I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find
it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with
LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is
life.
3:21 p.m.
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 12:49 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 12:13 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> Yea, this has crazy variants everywhere. To me, restart is not
> a variant of shutdown either, yet the vast majority of menu configs
> seem to want me to click shutdown so I can then click restart.
It could be worse. You could have to click on Start to get to the
shutdown menu.
Now lets not be mean to MS:-)
--
=======================================================================
It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no
God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. - Thomas Jefferson
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam(a)sbcglobal.net
3:19 p.m.
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 11:43 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/26/2011 09:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly
> got lost in both.
Try XFCE. You may find it easier to use, and in any case I'd be
interested in your opinion of it.
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in
a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able
to change the backgrounds. I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find
it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with
LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is
life.
--
=======================================================================
Write yourself a threatening letter and pen a defiant reply.
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam(a)sbcglobal.net
2:01 p.m.
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 17:49 +0000, JB wrote:
Aaron Konstam <akonstam <at> sbcglobal.net> writes:
> ...
> So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly
> got lost in both.
Will try to help :-)
> In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name)
> to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white
> background.
LXTerminal.
start it
Edit-Preferences
click Background, move Opacity slider to the very right (transparency OFF)
select Color name for your background
OK
click Foreground
select Color name for your foreground
OK
OK
Yes, the trick with Opacity caused me some grief too ...
You are right opacity
tripped me up.
> I managed to
> put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option
> in a panel.
Right click on panel
select Add/Remove Panel Items
on Panel Applets on right side press Add
from Add Plugin To Panel scroll down, select Application Launch Bar, press
Add, this placed it at bottom of Panel Applets
select Application Launch Bar, on right side press Edit, which should open
a window for Applications selections
in available applications expand System Tools, click on XTerm, press Add, and
this will place XTerm in Applications
you can repeat the above step for other apps as well, and order them with Up
and Down
then click Close to close Applications Selections window
back to Panel Preferences, click on Application Launch Bar, and click on Up
as many time as you wish to move it to a desired position, e.g. below
Minimize All Windows
click Close
Your Application Launch Bar with XTerm should be on left of the panel.
The above
procedure works. But how would anyone figure that out. Could
it possibly be more obscure?
Btw, I believe it is very similar to XFCE.
> The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
Click Fedora menu in left corner of the panel
click Logout
click Shutdown
Why ? No problem.
It is not to big a problem. But being simple minded I want an
entry
called Shutdown. To me Shutdown is not a subset of logout. Maybe it is
just me.
--
=======================================================================
People seem to enjoy things more when they know a lot of other people
have been left out on the pleasure. -- Russell Baker
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam(a)sbcglobal.net
12:49 p.m.
Aaron Konstam <akonstam <at> sbcglobal.net> writes:
...
So this morning I tried to get around in LXDE and KDE. I found I quickly
got lost in both.
Will try to help :-)
In LXDE I could not get LXTerm (I think that its name)
to be anything but transparent, rather than black letters on a white
background.
LXTerminal.
start it
Edit-Preferences
click Background, move Opacity slider to the very right (transparency OFF)
select Color name for your background
OK
click Foreground
select Color name for your foreground
OK
OK
Yes, the trick with Opacity caused me some grief too ...
I could never get any of the Background Images displayed in
the Background program to actually appear as backgrounds.
Fedora menu - Preferences - Desktop
Yes, there seems to be a problem (here in F15) - file BZ report.
I managed to
put Xterm in the Application menu but I could not get it as an option
in a panel.
Right click on panel
select Add/Remove Panel Items
on Panel Applets on right side press Add
from Add Plugin To Panel scroll down, select Application Launch Bar, press
Add, this placed it at bottom of Panel Applets
select Application Launch Bar, on right side press Edit, which should open
a window for Applications selections
in available applications expand System Tools, click on XTerm, press Add, and
this will place XTerm in Applications
you can repeat the above step for other apps as well, and order them with Up
and Down
then click Close to close Applications Selections window
back to Panel Preferences, click on Application Launch Bar, and click on Up
as many time as you wish to move it to a desired position, e.g. below
Minimize All Windows
click Close
Your Application Launch Bar with XTerm should be on left of the panel.
Btw, I believe it is very similar to XFCE.
The way to shut down was fairly well hidden.
Click Fedora menu in left corner of the panel
click Logout
click Shutdown
Why ? No problem.
KDE ?
I left it some 10 years or so ago (too resources hungry, too "heavy", too
different soul).
...
In each case, some time must be spent initially
to figure out how to do things.
...
Yes, it applies to every DE, but some are more intuitive than others.
JB
11:29 a.m.
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 11:11:38 -0500
Aaron Konstam wrote:
In each case, some time must be spent initially
to figure out how to do things.
For great fun, try running ubuntu unity: It has
drunk the mac koolaid and moved the menubar out
of all the apps, but to make things even more
interesting, it has also made the one menubar
shared by all the apps invisible. It doesn't
appear till you mouse over it, so if, for instance,
you are looking for the "File" button in firefox,
good luck finding it :-).
As near as I can tell the only thing unity is good
for is making gnome 3 look like a brilliantly
well designed, wonderful interface.
3:41 p.m.
Ok, I tried XFCE. I find it far superior to LXDE. You can find things in
a reasonable fashion. It shares with LXDE the problem of not being able
to change the backgrounds. I think people who balk at Gnome 3 would find
it easy to use. Adding things to the panel are much easier than with
LXDE. I am a little confused with Mixer as Volume control but such is
life.
I agree with this above assessment, even though I am currently an LXDE
user.
LXDE, however, satisfies my requirements, and I don't mind having to
find stuff, or programming it through configuration files. It appears
to be more of a cross between a full-blown DE and a WM-environment. (I
am a late migrant from fvwm through XFCE to LXDE.) Of some concern is
the fact that one of the LXDE components (lxpanel) is currently
unmaintained.
There have been quite a bit of discussion on the web on the pluses and
the minuses of Gnome3. I have not used it, and do not intend to. I used
fvwm for a long time (from 1998 to 2007) when I gave up on it, and
moved to XFCE which I used for another couple of years until LXDE came
around. (On the way from fvwm to XFCE, I spent time on Gnome2 -- or
whatever it was in 2009 -- for one day, and promptly gave it up because
I did not feel it added to much for me.)
I have fond feelings for fvwm, however I moved simply because many of
the applications in Fedora would increasingly have needless (some
still do) gnome dependencies. (I think they have done a better job
cleaning it up some.) In fact, to me, the real discussion should
be not on the pluses and minuses of Gnome2 vs 3, but whether the base
distribution should be so tied in so deeply to something so radical.
(Note that libnotify does not work in F15 as a result to changes in the
base package, or so I have been led to believe. Yes, there is a
workaround, install xfce4-notifyd, but this is some strange solution if
you do not want a XFCE spin.) I happen to believe not, but maybe there
can be other views of this.
Of greater appeal to some, including me, would be if there could be a
Fedora spin using a non-desktop environment such as fvwm (or something
similar). That would be quite beneficial to at least some of us users
welded to the past...:-)
Many thanks and best wishes,
Ranjan
2:13 p.m.
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:01:51 -0500
Aaron Konstam wrote:
It is not to big a problem. But being simple minded I want an entry
called Shutdown. To me Shutdown is not a subset of logout.
Yea, this has crazy variants everywhere. To me, restart is not
a variant of shutdown either, yet the vast majority of menu configs
seem to want me to click shutdown so I can then click restart.
More often than not, I avoid the menus completely and just
type "reboot" in a terminal (now all the sticklers can tell
me reboot is totally unsafe and I should be typing shutdown -r :-).
4619
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21 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Aaron Konstam -
Bob Goodwin -
JB -
Joe Zeff -
John Aldrich -
Ranjan Maitra -
Rick Stevens -
SternData -
Suvayu Ali -
Tom Horsley