For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
On 05/31/11 10:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
You are not the only one who has seen the responses of jaded individuals. They are just tired of seeing reports of problems without the type of supporting information that THEY would have liked to see. It happens to everyone after some years of seeing so many problem reports. So my advice is for you to develop a thicker skin and ignore them. Keep posting your problem along with more information such as messages in /var/log/messages which might shed some light on the nature of the problem you are facing. Ultimately, someone will have the insight and be able to provide help. From my experience with this list, there really are not that many people on this list that post solutions to people's problems. So, have patience.
My $.02's worth: have you tested your CD/DVD drive for flaws or other problems? WHat about the burned CDs DVDs. Did you run the sanity check on them? Anaconda has that built-in when you boot from the Fedora installation CDs and DVDs.
Cheers,
JD
On 05/31/2011 10:54 AM, JD wrote:
Keep posting your problem along with more information such as messages in /var/log/messages which might shed some light on the nature of the problem you are facing.
Exactly. Just claiming that it's impossible to upgrade from F14 to F15 (Especially, I might add, when there are tens of thousands of counter-examples.) and ignoring all the suggestions made as to how to get us the information needed to help you isn't going to get you any help. If you want the members of this list to give you help, you have to give them the information they need so that they can (maybe) figure out what went wrong. Posting your smolt profile is probably the only substantive information you've offered, but you expect us to pull a solution to your upgrade woes out of a hat.
And, you also have to remember that you're not paying for this assistance. Those of us reading this list are offering help *for free* because we want to. There's nothing in the world compelling us to help people who won't cooperate, so next time you ask for assistance, leave your "I'm entitled to this" attitude at the door.
On 05/31/2011 09:11 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/31/2011 10:54 AM, JD wrote:
Keep posting your problem along with more information such as messages in /var/log/messages which might shed some light on the nature of the problem you are facing.
Exactly. Just claiming that it's impossible to upgrade from F14 to F15 (Especially, I might add, when there are tens of thousands of counter-examples.) and ignoring all the suggestions made as to how to get us the information needed to help you isn't going to get you any help. If you want the members of this list to give you help, you have to give them the information they need so that they can (maybe) figure out what went wrong. Posting your smolt profile is probably the only substantive information you've offered, but you expect us to pull a solution to your upgrade woes out of a hat.
And, you also have to remember that you're not paying for this assistance. Those of us reading this list are offering help *for free* because we want to. There's nothing in the world compelling us to help people who won't cooperate, so next time you ask for assistance, leave your "I'm entitled to this" attitude at the door.
Sorry to say this, but after some of the jaded comments you've made in the past I don't hold you in high regard.
On 05/31/11 16:25, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Sorry to say this, but after some of the jaded comments you've made in the past I don't hold you in high regard.
I have been seeing a lot of complaints about F15. This tells me that this release was made in too much of a hurry (only ~6 months after release of F14 around near mid Nov. 2010). Seems to me not enough testing was done before release. Let's hope F16 will be more solid.
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 17:44 -0700, JD wrote:
On 05/31/11 16:25, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Sorry to say this, but after some of the jaded comments you've made in the past I don't hold you in high regard.
I have been seeing a lot of complaints about F15. This tells me that this release was made in too much of a hurry (only ~6 months after release of F14 around near mid Nov. 2010).
And that's different from the release period of 6 months from F13 to F14 how? Or F12 to F13?? Fedora is _not_ production ready. It was NEVER made to be a reliable and tested platform. It's where we live up to true open source, release often and release early. We identify the issues and work on making the software better. WE here means community - it means working together. Us that are not code contributors need to help out too. By testing, reporting our findings (not "it doesn't work" but REAL debug information); help provide documentation and in other ways help improve the quality.
And you're totally right - by the time we catch up, it's time to move on. That's the nature of Fedora. We don't have a LTS of Fedora - unless you consider RHEL Workstation as such (and I don't). But as you may know, a lot of the cool NEW stuff isn't part of that distribution for the reasons I just mentioned. You can't have it both ways. Stable and tested software is not state of the art. And it takes quite a bit of resources to keep a supported LTS around and Fedora choose not to go that way.
Seems to me not enough testing was done before release. Let's hope F16 will be more solid.
There never is enough time. And that's on purpose. The release itself should be considered a QA candidate all the way to EOL. Each release builds up experience to improve the next.
Each Fedora release is supported by updates for 13-some months. You do not HAVE to go directly to F15 right when it's released. It's your choice to stay on F14 for another 6-7 months - and you'll still get updates and you can still help making things better by providing feedback and fix issues on that version. It'll all help to improve F16. F16 will be better, but don't expect F16 to do things differently than things were done for F14 or F15 (or earlier). It's still going to be bleeding edge, and you'll be chancing your system failing by using it. Of course as we learn about Fedora and Linux most of us are able to diagnose (with or without community help) and find solutions or work-arounds to problems allowing us to use Fedora as our permanent desktops. But not without expecting a hickup now and then (particular on "upgrade day").
On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:24:40 +0100 "n2xssvv.g02gfr12930" n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
Sorry to hear it.
First: Do you wish to try and solve the above and/or get it tracked down so it can get fixed or others don't run into it?
If not, sorry it didn't work out.
If so, would you be willing to provide more information? I'd be happy to walk you through what to gather.
kevin
On 05/31/2011 08:17 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:24:40 +0100 "n2xssvv.g02gfr12930"n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
Sorry to hear it.
First: Do you wish to try and solve the above and/or get it tracked down so it can get fixed or others don't run into it?
If not, sorry it didn't work out.
If so, would you be willing to provide more information? I'd be happy to walk you through what to gather.
kevin
Let me assure you I have tried many of the suggestions without success. Secondly I've already spend ~3 days on this with little or no progress and a lot of jaded responses of no help at all. As I have made clear, my confidence that this will get fixed, and Fedora, is beginning to evaporate.
Sure I'd like to get it fixed, but having worked in support, and repair myself, I know that without a repeatable fault it's nigh on impossible to fix. Also I started on Fedora core 2 and have been sorting my problems and upgrading along the way, so I don't appreciate jaded comments of the sort suggesting I'm some sort of arrogant idiot.
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from myself, and I already know that thank you!
It appears this community is the place to look for assistance, and currently I'm not enjoying the experience, although I will reluctantly put up more information as I gather it. But currently I reckon waiting to try Fedora 16 is the best I can hope for.
My recommendation before trying to install/upgrade any version of Fedora is to try one of the live CDs first.
Current position
-------------------------------------
I have reverted back to Fedora 14, as I want/need a working PC
I am unwilling to try another install/upgrade after 2 failures, (it's a long process), it will have to be the Live CD
After trying an upgrade I could not get consistent faults, not useful
I created Fedora 15 install/rescue dvd, checking the signatures
I did try kernel parameters like noapic to no avail
My DVD burner works fine thank you
It is not possible to get log files if you can't boot
Using Fedora 14 rescue DVD after initial upgrade it appeared the install had become corrupted, (could not see my home directory)
I have little respect for anybody that makes jaded comments or no further useful suggestions
Currently the most consistent fault is the hardware fails to initialise before eventually showing some error stack trace, (I'm IT savvy and understand this better than you may think), and will note some of it down in due course
At some point I will be changing my motherboard/graphics card, not sure when yet, and I have done this before with Linux installed.
-------------------------------------
Please do not take any offence kevin, this is not aimed at folks like you who try to be helpful.
What I don't get is if certain people are so jaded, why so they stick around? Like another person said, this is all done for free. Its not like people here are stuck to answerin questions 40 hours a week. If questions upset you, then hit the road. There's no reason for angry/jaded people to stick around here. It makes no sense.
On May 31, 2011, at 7:33 PM, "n2xssvv.g02gfr12930" n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 05/31/2011 08:17 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:24:40 +0100 "n2xssvv.g02gfr12930"n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
Sorry to hear it.
First: Do you wish to try and solve the above and/or get it tracked down so it can get fixed or others don't run into it?
If not, sorry it didn't work out.
If so, would you be willing to provide more information? I'd be happy to walk you through what to gather.
kevin
Let me assure you I have tried many of the suggestions without success. Secondly I've already spend ~3 days on this with little or no progress and a lot of jaded responses of no help at all. As I have made clear, my confidence that this will get fixed, and Fedora, is beginning to evaporate.
Sure I'd like to get it fixed, but having worked in support, and repair myself, I know that without a repeatable fault it's nigh on impossible to fix. Also I started on Fedora core 2 and have been sorting my problems and upgrading along the way, so I don't appreciate jaded comments of the sort suggesting I'm some sort of arrogant idiot.
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from myself, and I already know that thank you!
It appears this community is the place to look for assistance, and currently I'm not enjoying the experience, although I will reluctantly put up more information as I gather it. But currently I reckon waiting to try Fedora 16 is the best I can hope for.
My recommendation before trying to install/upgrade any version of Fedora is to try one of the live CDs first.
Current position
I have reverted back to Fedora 14, as I want/need a working PC
I am unwilling to try another install/upgrade after 2 failures, (it's a long process), it will have to be the Live CD
After trying an upgrade I could not get consistent faults, not useful
I created Fedora 15 install/rescue dvd, checking the signatures
I did try kernel parameters like noapic to no avail
My DVD burner works fine thank you
It is not possible to get log files if you can't boot
Using Fedora 14 rescue DVD after initial upgrade it appeared the install had become corrupted, (could not see my home directory)
I have little respect for anybody that makes jaded comments or no further useful suggestions
Currently the most consistent fault is the hardware fails to initialise before eventually showing some error stack trace, (I'm IT savvy and understand this better than you may think), and will note some of it down in due course
At some point I will be changing my motherboard/graphics card, not sure when yet, and I have done this before with Linux installed.
Please do not take any offence kevin, this is not aimed at folks like you who try to be helpful.
-- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
On 05/31/2011 07:43 PM, Alex wrote:
What I don't get is if certain people are so jaded, why so they stick around? Like another person said, this is all done for free. Its not like people here are stuck to answerin questions 40 hours a week. If questions upset you, then hit the road. There's no reason for angry/jaded people to stick around here. It makes no sense.
Well, some of us stick around, but ignore 90% of the posts, and only get involved in thing that interest us, and we have the free time to follow through on. Other then that, you may get a hint of a direction to follow.
One thing to keep in mind - if you see a post from jdow, it is usually worth reading and trying her advice.
Mikkel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 05/31/2011 07:43 PM, Alex wrote:
What I don't get is if certain people are so jaded, why so they stick around? Like another person said, this is all done for free. Its not like people here are stuck to answerin questions 40 hours a week. If questions upset you, then hit the road. There's no reason for angry/jaded people to stick around here. It makes no sense.
You know, this sounds like good advice. Time to move on.
Mikkel - --
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
On 05/31/2011 05:33 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from myself, and I already know that thank you!
You keep referring, over and over to "jaded comments." Yes, I know you're not the one who started it, but I don't think the term means quite what you think it does. And, the quoted text twists the entire point of my remark that we're doing this for free. It's not that we don't care (If we did, we'd either unsubscribe from the list or simply ignore you.) it's that we offer help because, and only because we want to. At this point, I'm tired of trying to explain this to you because judging from your replies, you pay no attention to anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions or is intended to help you tell us what we need to know.
although I will reluctantly put up more information as I gather it.
Yes. Exactly. Getting any information out of you is like pulling teeth. It's almost as though you don't want help, you want everybody to feel sorry for you. Right now, IMO, you're singing a One Note Samba, based on the third note in the scale and I'm tired of listening to it.
On 06/01/2011 01:56 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/31/2011 05:33 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from myself, and I already know that thank you!
You keep referring, over and over to "jaded comments." Yes, I know you're not the one who started it, but I don't think the term means quite what you think it does. And, the quoted text twists the entire point of my remark that we're doing this for free. It's not that we don't care (If we did, we'd either unsubscribe from the list or simply ignore you.) it's that we offer help because, and only because we want to. At this point, I'm tired of trying to explain this to you because judging from your replies, you pay no attention to anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions or is intended to help you tell us what we need to know.
although I will reluctantly put up more information as I gather it.
Yes. Exactly. Getting any information out of you is like pulling teeth. It's almost as though you don't want help, you want everybody to feel sorry for you. Right now, IMO, you're singing a One Note Samba, based on the third note in the scale and I'm tired of listening to it.
As I said, I do not hold you in high regard. If your tired of listening, then don't, it'd suit us both fine I think.
On 06/01/2011 02:22 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:03 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
As I said, I do not hold you in high regard. If your tired of listening, then don't, it'd suit us both fine I think.
Goodbye, luser. *Plonk!*
As I said, I do not hold you in high regard. No lose here mind.
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
If I had had your experience (and I have had much worse, though not with Fedora-15) I would probably try:
1. Try to install in text mode. (My guess would be that your problem is with the graphics driver.) I'm not sure if text mode is explicitly offered any more, as it used to be?
[If I could find no other way, and had Fedora-14 on the machine, I would abstract vmlinuz and initrd.img from the Fedora-15 DVD ISO (by running " mount -o loop Fedora...iso /mnt") copy them to /boot and add a stanza to grub.conf to call them with a line like "kernel /vmlinuz text", or else run grub interactively.]
2. Try the Fedora-15 netinstall CD.
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 18:24 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
Sounds like hardware/bios to me? Maybe you didn't hit the ON button? (exaggeration made on purpose here).
Define "boot" better. Describe the failure with dumps and you'll be able to have a conversation in here. "Cannot boot" is not a descriptive/objective error message. Nobody can help you given that little information. The boot process is complex and has many many stages. Be specific or you get the responses you've been given here.
On 06/01/2011 02:21 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 18:24 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
Sounds like hardware/bios to me? Maybe you didn't hit the ON button? (exaggeration made on purpose here).
Define "boot" better. Describe the failure with dumps and you'll be able to have a conversation in here. "Cannot boot" is not a descriptive/objective error message. Nobody can help you given that little information. The boot process is complex and has many many stages. Be specific or you get the responses you've been given here.
Sorry to disappoint you, but words are easy, rooting out the details are not. See my other posts, and with all due respect the scatter gun approach to support, (lots of people getting frustrated, while trying to help), is leaving a bitter taste. Hence, as and when I find reliable, repeatable failure feedback, I will try and report it. But any accurate detailed suggestions as to how I might actually do that seem to be few and far between, although they are welcome.
Let me say, it's my problem, and I've taken ownership of it. That means I'm not likely to reply, immediately, directly, or at all to the scatter gun suggestions I receive from this community. This is not out of disrespect to anyone, but I'm perfectly capable of confusing myself when deciding what to do. If this approach doesn't suit people, then they don't need to get involved.
After ~3 days of trying I am not expecting a fix for Fedora 15, and await Fedora 16.
No offence intended, and your effort to help is appreciated.
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Update
Created Fedora 15 Live CD KDE
booted, and ran the check, result passed
Boot sequence (low res) then gets to this point eventually
.... Starting POSIX Message Queue File System... Started POSIX Message Queue File System Starting Huge Page File System... Started Huge Page File System. Started udev Wait for Complete Device Initialization. Starting Wait for Storage Scan... Show Plymouth Boot Screen
Delay here then core dump and reliably see reference to Advansys
functions perhaps?
AdvInitAsc3550Driver
AdvResetChipAndSB
AdvISR
SCSI card reported in Fedora 14 by kinfocenter as "Advanced Systems Product Inc ABP940-UW"
On 05/31/11 23:20, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Update
Created Fedora 15 Live CD KDE
booted, and ran the check, result passed
Boot sequence (low res) then gets to this point eventually
.... Starting POSIX Message Queue File System... Started POSIX Message Queue File System Starting Huge Page File System... Started Huge Page File System. Started udev Wait for Complete Device Initialization. Starting Wait for Storage Scan... Show Plymouth Boot Screen
Delay here then core dump and reliably see reference to Advansys
functions perhaps?
AdvInitAsc3550Driver
AdvResetChipAndSB
AdvISR
SCSI card reported in Fedora 14 by kinfocenter as "Advanced Systems Product Inc ABP940-UW"
That's better news. At least it confirms that it works with your graphics card. Were you able to bring up your network? Maybe you could make another attempt to install F15 on an empty partition instead of upgrading your F14 installation, so that you will always be able to fall back on your good F14 installation.
On 06/01/2011 07:32 AM, JD wrote:
On 05/31/11 23:20, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Update
Created Fedora 15 Live CD KDE
booted, and ran the check, result passed
Boot sequence (low res) then gets to this point eventually
.... Starting POSIX Message Queue File System... Started POSIX Message Queue File System Starting Huge Page File System... Started Huge Page File System. Started udev Wait for Complete Device Initialization. Starting Wait for Storage Scan... Show Plymouth Boot Screen
> Delay here then core dump and reliably see reference to Advansys
functions perhaps?
AdvInitAsc3550Driver
AdvResetChipAndSB
AdvISR
SCSI card reported in Fedora 14 by kinfocenter as "Advanced Systems Product Inc ABP940-UW"
That's better news. At least it confirms that it works with your graphics card. Were you able to bring up your network? Maybe you could make another attempt to install F15 on an empty partition instead of upgrading your F14 installation, so that you will always be able to fall back on your good F14 installation.
Difficult to install Fedora 15 to another partition directly as the install/rescue DVD for Fedora 15 fails to work. Although I could install Fedora 14 to another partition and update that.
The last reinstall of Fedora 14 was done directly from the Fedora repositories, (fortunately I know the required IP config).
My concern with doing another update in another partition is the need for a proper plan. Firstly rebooting to the updated Fedora 15 might not be the best course, rather booting the working Fedora 14 and then mount the Fedora 15 and collect its configuration information. The concern with a Fedora 15 boot is it may have unforeseen consequences that obscure the real problem. Also it might be advisable to get the installed packages both before and after the update. Unfortunately this will take at least a day to achieve. So, I'm not sure when I'll get round to trying it.
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
Created a xorg.conf and now loads vesa driver instead, but still fails
Sigh
On 06/02/11 19:44, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
To me, that sounds like a very strange, to say the least. Since you are running the F14 anaconda, and then you point it to F15 repos, then at some point anaconda might look for something that it expects to exist in the installed system (since anaconda's scripts could very well be custom made for the specific release), and it will not find it and crash. Once such thing might very well be a library, a specific library version, for a program that anaconda will execute, on the premise that the program will find it's library already installed, but the program crashes, because F15 does not install that library. I am only making this conjecture as a possible reason why anaconda crashed. What you did is certainly interesting, but obviously not the way to go.
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
doing chroot to f15 from f14 does not alter the booted kernel, which is F14. Thus while chrooted in F15, and you try, for example, to modprobe some module, like a graphics module, such as modprobe radeon Well, modprobe will look in /lib/modules/RELEASE within the chroot environent (where RELEASE will be the F15 kernel release version). And it will try to insert that module into the running kernel which is an F14 kernel. The attempt will fail because of version mismatch.
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I do not know what the param name is for Fedora, but on ububtu, the param name is xmodule, so you set it by appending xmodule=vesa If it is the same for F15, then If you boot F15 directly, you could edit the boot menu (press e, then down-arrow, press e again and append to end of the line: xmodule=vesa then press enter then press b to boot.
However, I thought that all this is totally unnecessary because the xorg server first detects the type of graphics you have and then runs the server code for that chipset. At least that is what I was told when I had asked questions about /etc/X11/xorg.conf (which has been largely obviated).
Cheers,
JD
On 06/03/2011 04:51 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 19:44, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
To me, that sounds like a very strange, to say the least. Since you are running the F14 anaconda, and then you point it to F15 repos, then at some point anaconda might look for something that it expects to exist in the installed system (since anaconda's scripts could very well be custom made for the specific release), and it will not find it and crash. Once such thing might very well be a library, a specific library version, for a program that anaconda will execute, on the premise that the program will find it's library already installed, but the program crashes, because F15 does not install that library. I am only making this conjecture as a possible reason why anaconda crashed. What you did is certainly interesting, but obviously not the way to go.
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
doing chroot to f15 from f14 does not alter the booted kernel, which is F14. Thus while chrooted in F15, and you try, for example, to modprobe some module, like a graphics module, such as modprobe radeon Well, modprobe will look in /lib/modules/RELEASE within the chroot environent (where RELEASE will be the F15 kernel release version). And it will try to insert that module into the running kernel which is an F14 kernel. The attempt will fail because of version mismatch.
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I do not know what the param name is for Fedora, but on ububtu, the param name is xmodule, so you set it by appending xmodule=vesa If it is the same for F15, then If you boot F15 directly, you could edit the boot menu (press e, then down-arrow, press e again and append to end of the line: xmodule=vesa then press enter then press b to boot.
However, I thought that all this is totally unnecessary because the xorg server first detects the type of graphics you have and then runs the server code for that chipset. At least that is what I was told when I had asked questions about /etc/X11/xorg.conf (which has been largely obviated).
Cheers,
JD
You are right about the video driver, and I did manage to change it to no effect anyway.
Just another bit of information it fails after trying iSCSI bus reset a couple of times before disabling something because it failed to recover, then the next bus reset causes the core dump and halt
Unfortunately I could find no other way of installing Fedora 15 natively as the DVD would not start up properly. I'll see if I can report what the Fedora 15 install/rescue DVD errors are.
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I can now mount the Fedora 15 root, home, and boot partitions from Fedora 14 boot. So any suggestions how I could make use of this would be appreciated.
On 06/03/11 03:22, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I can now mount the Fedora 15 root, home, and boot partitions from Fedora 14 boot. So any suggestions how I could make use of this would be appreciated.
To my mind, the most you can do with chroot'ing to the F15 mounted partition, with F14 being the booted OS (and with network fully operational) is that you should be able to run yum -y update. This will update your F15 environment, but will leave F14 alone. But before you run yum -y update, I THINK (but I am not sure) you will need to first kill the F14 updates daemon:
service yum-updatesd stop
Perhaps another person who has more knowledge about the yum-updatesd can shed more light here.
On 06/03/2011 02:48 PM, JD wrote:
On 06/03/11 03:22, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I can now mount the Fedora 15 root, home, and boot partitions from Fedora 14 boot. So any suggestions how I could make use of this would be appreciated.
To my mind, the most you can do with chroot'ing to the F15 mounted partition, with F14 being the booted OS (and with network fully operational) is that you should be able to run yum -y update. This will update your F15 environment, but will leave F14 alone. But before you run yum -y update, I THINK (but I am not sure) you will need to first kill the F14 updates daemon:
service yum-updatesd stop
Perhaps another person who has more knowledge about the yum-updatesd can shed more light here.
Thanks for that, but as you say you really need to know what you're doing. I'm certainly not comfortable trying that.
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
On 06/02/11 21:26, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
I searched fo iSCSI on that page and did not find it. However, the generic scsi layer runs on top of the lower hardware drivers, which maybe ATA (IDE), or SATA or FLASH memory disk on USB.
As you know, /iSCSI/ is an abbreviation of Internet Small Computer System Interface. Do you have network acessible storage server which serves SCSI block devices which your PC accesses? During install, the network is not up, so how could iscsi be involved?
Cheers,
JD
On 06/03/2011 06:40 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 21:26, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
I searched fo iSCSI on that page and did not find it. However, the generic scsi layer runs on top of the lower hardware drivers, which maybe ATA (IDE), or SATA or FLASH memory disk on USB.
As you know, /iSCSI/ is an abbreviation of Internet Small Computer System Interface. Do you have network acessible storage server which serves SCSI block devices which your PC accesses? During install, the network is not up, so how could iscsi be involved?
Cheers,
JD
Certainly, while the anaconda from the Fedora 15 DVD install starts up, there is no network accessible storage. Unfortunately it causes a fault and a core dump before completing.
As it happens I do have a NAS attached to my local network, although why would that cause a problem? It certainly is not a problem for Fedora 14, but trying a boot with it switched off would do no harm.
On 06/03/2011 08:42 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 06:40 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 21:26, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
I searched fo iSCSI on that page and did not find it. However, the generic scsi layer runs on top of the lower hardware drivers, which maybe ATA (IDE), or SATA or FLASH memory disk on USB.
As you know, /iSCSI/ is an abbreviation of Internet Small Computer System Interface. Do you have network acessible storage server which serves SCSI block devices which your PC accesses? During install, the network is not up, so how could iscsi be involved?
Cheers,
JD
Certainly, while the anaconda from the Fedora 15 DVD install starts up, there is no network accessible storage. Unfortunately it causes a fault and a core dump before completing.
As it happens I do have a NAS attached to my local network, although why would that cause a problem? It certainly is not a problem for Fedora 14, but trying a boot with it switched off would do no harm.
No joy trying to boot with the NAS turned off.
Sigh
On 06/03/2011 05:26 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
Correction, that should be SCSI bus reset
On 06/02/11 21:16, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
In that case I am starting to suspect some hardware problem. Difficult to tell what. Perhaps you can download a free bootable CD (iso image) for comprehensive hardware diagnostic/sanity check, burn it on a good working cd burner and then boot it on your machine and run the HW diags. Good luck.
JD
On 06/03/2011 06:32 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 21:16, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
In that case I am starting to suspect some hardware problem. Difficult to tell what. Perhaps you can download a free bootable CD (iso image) for comprehensive hardware diagnostic/sanity check, burn it on a good working cd burner and then boot it on your machine and run the HW diags. Good luck.
JD
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has the next kernel update another install will work.
On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has the next kernel update another install will work.
The only scenario that I can imagine, where this kind of thing would be possible (F14 working cleanly, F15 failing completely), would be some change in the kernel (that goes with F15) which doesn't handle some obscure piece of hardware or combination of pieces, that only a small percentage of people might have (ie. only you).
I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI controller and some device attached in your machine (it was also visible in your smolt profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached there?
I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15 Live KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how it stops (take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a paper and retype in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all unnecessary hardware. The only thing you *need* in a machine is memory, one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive and a video card (and obvious stuff --- a motherboard, processor, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Remove everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live KDE.
If it still doesn't work, it is either a BIOS problem or your hardware is somehow broken in some very weird way (which I doubt, since F14 manages to work). You may want to try resetting the BIOS to the default/failsafe values, to see if that helps.
If at any step you manage to boot cleanly into the F15 Live KDE, install it on the hard disk, reboot into it, do a yum update to fetch all the updates, and then start reconnecting other devices one by one. If the system stops booting at any point, you have found the culprit. If your system keeps working after you have reattached everything, most probably the updates fixed whatever the problem was.
A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on where, how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical skills to explain the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a failed boot attempt, and post it. You can use a camera built into your mobile phone (or ask a friend for one), and you can use a working F14 to put it online.
The boot procedure of a Linux system is very complicated, and it can fail in many different ways. If you just say "it doesn't work", noone on this list can even begin to guess what might be wrong. At the very least you can tell us what was the final message written on the screen after which the system froze or self-restarted.
And a social note. As you have seen --- bitching that something doesn't work, not providing detailed info, and posting general advice to people to stay away from F15 because it doesn't boot on your system --- will only provoke other people on this list to label you as a troll and give up on helping you. This is a Bad Idea(tm), since you've already driven away most of the knowlegeable people with that kind of behavior. If you want to ask for help to solve some problem, be polite and cooperative. If you want to vent and bitch that something doesn't work as you expect, and give advice to others to stay away from something, make a blog and post there, instead of posting on this list. This is a "please help me solve a problem"-type list, and "I have a lousy experience and a bad opinion"-type posts are not accepted well and rather belong on your personal blog.
HTH, :-) Marko
On 06/03/2011 11:58 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has the next kernel update another install will work.
The only scenario that I can imagine, where this kind of thing would be possible (F14 working cleanly, F15 failing completely), would be some change in the kernel (that goes with F15) which doesn't handle some obscure piece of hardware or combination of pieces, that only a small percentage of people might have (ie. only you).
I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI controller and some device attached in your machine (it was also visible in your smolt profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached there?
I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15 Live KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how it stops (take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a paper and retype in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all unnecessary hardware. The only thing you *need* in a machine is memory, one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive and a video card (and obvious stuff --- a motherboard, processor, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Remove everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live KDE.
If it still doesn't work, it is either a BIOS problem or your hardware is somehow broken in some very weird way (which I doubt, since F14 manages to work). You may want to try resetting the BIOS to the default/failsafe values, to see if that helps.
If at any step you manage to boot cleanly into the F15 Live KDE, install it on the hard disk, reboot into it, do a yum update to fetch all the updates, and then start reconnecting other devices one by one. If the system stops booting at any point, you have found the culprit. If your system keeps working after you have reattached everything, most probably the updates fixed whatever the problem was.
A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on where, how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical skills to explain the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a failed boot attempt, and post it. You can use a camera built into your mobile phone (or ask a friend for one), and you can use a working F14 to put it online.
The boot procedure of a Linux system is very complicated, and it can fail in many different ways. If you just say "it doesn't work", noone on this list can even begin to guess what might be wrong. At the very least you can tell us what was the final message written on the screen after which the system froze or self-restarted.
And a social note. As you have seen --- bitching that something doesn't work, not providing detailed info, and posting general advice to people to stay away from F15 because it doesn't boot on your system --- will only provoke other people on this list to label you as a troll and give up on helping you. This is a Bad Idea(tm), since you've already driven away most of the knowlegeable people with that kind of behavior. If you want to ask for help to solve some problem, be polite and cooperative. If you want to vent and bitch that something doesn't work as you expect, and give advice to others to stay away from something, make a blog and post there, instead of posting on this list. This is a "please help me solve a problem"-type list, and "I have a lousy experience and a bad opinion"-type posts are not accepted well and rather belong on your personal blog.
HTH, :-) Marko
Well I agree that my opinion posts were made out of frustration, wrongly.
If you look at some of my other posts here you will see that I have provided further details that detail that the Fedora 15 install DVD, Fedora 15 Live KDE CD, and a Fedora 15 install, (by other means), all fail in a similar manner, which appears to be requiring multiple SCSI reset bus, then core dump, and shows various Advansys calls.
Also both Fedora 15 install DVD and Fedora 15 Live KDE CD both passed the check disk.
Lastly, I do appreciate people trying to help, but some of the suggestions were not actually possible. Yet I was accused of not trying those suggestions, and it appears to me that they may have been selective in the posts they chose to read. Regardless of that I've moved on and as you may have seen I have managed to create a much more useful method to help determine the problem, (thanks in part to JD).
I should also point out I have tried at no time been rude about anyone, whether that been name calling or other rude implications. If people do offer support, that is generous of them, but perhaps they should show more patience. I have experience providing support dealing with angry people and do you think being rude in reply would have helped?
On Friday 03 June 2011 12:52:56 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 11:58 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has the next kernel update another install will work.
I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI controller and some device attached in your machine (it was also visible in your smolt profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached there?
[snip]
I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15 Live KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how it stops (take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a paper and retype in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all unnecessary hardware. The only thing you *need* in a machine is memory, one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive and a video card (and obvious stuff --- a motherboard, processor, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Remove everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live KDE.
[snip]
A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on where, how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical skills to explain the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a failed boot attempt, and post it. You can use a camera built into your mobile phone (or ask a friend for one), and you can use a working F14 to put it online.
Well I agree that my opinion posts were made out of frustration, wrongly.
If you look at some of my other posts here you will see that I have provided further details that detail that the Fedora 15 install DVD, Fedora 15 Live KDE CD, and a Fedora 15 install, (by other means), all fail in a similar manner, which appears to be requiring multiple SCSI reset bus, then core dump, and shows various Advansys calls.
Ok, so social things aside, have you tried to disconnect the SCSI device and boot the F15 Live KDE? What is the result?
Also, you still didn't say which device is attached to the SCSI controller and what is it used for? Is it a hard disk? A DVD drive? Network equipment? Something else? Detailed hardware specs could be useful, because someone may be aware of a potential kernel/driver bug for that particular device, or maybe know a workaround. Post as many details as you can about it.
Given that the boot process hangs with a SCSI bus reset, I have a feeling that this device is the culprit of your problems. Another piece of info would be useful --- where in the boot process does the SCSI bus reset message appear? Is it during the kernel booting phase, or after init kicked in? Is the root partition already remounted r/w, or is it still mounted read-only? If it is still read-only, there will be no info in the logs. But if it happened after the r/w remount, you can mount the F15 / partition into some directory of F14, and look at /mountpoint/var/log/messages and /mountpoint/var/log/boot.log for further info (/mountpoint is the name of the directory in F14 tree where you have mounted the F15 / directory).
Any of those things would be helpful in diagnosing what goes wrong during the boot. But above all, do try to disconnect the SCSI device altogether and boot into F15. If that works, do a yum update and see if it pulls in a new kernel, then reattach the device and try again with the latest kernel. Maybe the drivers had a bug.
Come back with as much info as you can collect about this.
HTH, :-) Marko
On 06/03/2011 02:05 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Friday 03 June 2011 12:52:56 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 11:58 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has the next kernel update another install will work.
I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI controller and some device attached in your machine (it was also visible in your smolt profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached there?
[snip]
I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15 Live KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how it stops (take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a paper and retype in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all unnecessary hardware. The only thing you *need* in a machine is memory, one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive and a video card (and obvious stuff --- a motherboard, processor, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Remove everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live KDE.
[snip]
A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on where, how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical skills to explain the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a failed boot attempt, and post it. You can use a camera built into your mobile phone (or ask a friend for one), and you can use a working F14 to put it online.
Well I agree that my opinion posts were made out of frustration, wrongly.
If you look at some of my other posts here you will see that I have provided further details that detail that the Fedora 15 install DVD, Fedora 15 Live KDE CD, and a Fedora 15 install, (by other means), all fail in a similar manner, which appears to be requiring multiple SCSI reset bus, then core dump, and shows various Advansys calls.
Ok, so social things aside, have you tried to disconnect the SCSI device and boot the F15 Live KDE? What is the result?
Also, you still didn't say which device is attached to the SCSI controller and what is it used for? Is it a hard disk? A DVD drive? Network equipment? Something else? Detailed hardware specs could be useful, because someone may be aware of a potential kernel/driver bug for that particular device, or maybe know a workaround. Post as many details as you can about it.
Given that the boot process hangs with a SCSI bus reset, I have a feeling that this device is the culprit of your problems. Another piece of info would be useful --- where in the boot process does the SCSI bus reset message appear? Is it during the kernel booting phase, or after init kicked in? Is the root partition already remounted r/w, or is it still mounted read-only? If it is still read-only, there will be no info in the logs. But if it happened after the r/w remount, you can mount the F15 / partition into some directory of F14, and look at /mountpoint/var/log/messages and /mountpoint/var/log/boot.log for further info (/mountpoint is the name of the directory in F14 tree where you have mounted the F15 / directory).
Any of those things would be helpful in diagnosing what goes wrong during the boot. But above all, do try to disconnect the SCSI device altogether and boot into F15. If that works, do a yum update and see if it pulls in a new kernel, then reattach the device and try again with the latest kernel. Maybe the drivers had a bug.
Come back with as much info as you can collect about this.
HTH, :-) Marko
Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
The SCSI bus reset is in the kernel booting phase I believe.
On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 15:15 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
The probability is quite (not to say very) high that this will solve the issue, yes. If not, I would run e memtest to see if you have memory issues.
I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
Mount the F15 on /mnt including the additional mount point, chroot /mnt and you run yum update as suggested in the other mail. No meed to stop This should be a riskless operation. It is actually also what a rescue operation does, but in this case you can use the F14 network setup that makes it even easier. I would hoever recommend removing the SCSI controller first
Louis
On 06/03/2011 03:41 PM, Louis Lagendijk wrote:
On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 15:15 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
The probability is quite (not to say very) high that this will solve the issue, yes. If not, I would run e memtest to see if you have memory issues.
I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
Mount the F15 on /mnt including the additional mount point, chroot /mnt and you run yum update as suggested in the other mail. No meed to stop This should be a riskless operation. It is actually also what a rescue operation does, but in this case you can use the F14 network setup that makes it even easier. I would hoever recommend removing the SCSI controller first
Louis
Thanks for that Louis, although I'm still nervous. The yum update needs to run under chroot without affecting the currently running system, and I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I suppose I'll have to do some harmless experiments to determine how.
On 06/03/11 08:38, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 03:41 PM, Louis Lagendijk wrote:
On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 15:15 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
The probability is quite (not to say very) high that this will solve the issue, yes. If not, I would run e memtest to see if you have memory issues.
I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
Mount the F15 on /mnt including the additional mount point, chroot /mnt and you run yum update as suggested in the other mail. No meed to stop This should be a riskless operation. It is actually also what a rescue operation does, but in this case you can use the F14 network setup that makes it even easier. I would hoever recommend removing the SCSI controller first
Louis
Thanks for that Louis, although I'm still nervous. The yum update needs to run under chroot without affecting the currently running system, and I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I suppose I'll have to do some harmless experiments to determine how.
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs, CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT, NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
JD writes:
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs, CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT, NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
On 06/03/2011 05:09 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
JD writes:
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs, CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT, NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
My caution maybe well founded, so I will have to do some experimenting first.
Thanks for the feedback folks.
Have you removed the scsi card, as Marco suggested? I would do that before doing anything else. You said that there is nothing connected to it and the system crashes right after the scsi bus is reset. Yank that sucker out and see what happens. Zero risk, and it might solve the problem.
Mike
On 06/03/2011 06:03 PM, Mike Williams wrote:
Have you removed the scsi card, as Marco suggested? I would do that before doing anything else. You said that there is nothing connected to it and the system crashes right after the scsi bus is reset. Yank that sucker out and see what happens. Zero risk, and it might solve the problem.
Mike
Yep, I will do so. Not sure when, maybe sometime next week. I've a busy weekend ahead.
On 06/03/11 09:46, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:09 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
JD writes:
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs, CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT, NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
My caution maybe well founded, so I will have to do some experimenting first.
Thanks for the feedback folks.
No it is NOT. We are not asking you to write a program that uses chroot(2) system call and then do some thing as the man page for the system call depicts, compile it and run it.
The chroot(1) user command does no make such exploits at all and has been safely used to put processes in jail for many many years. AFAIK no one has shown that chroot(1) command allows the subsequently forked and chrooted shell and it's children (user commands like yum) to jump out of the boundaries of jail (in your case /mnt/f15).
This is the problem with listening to such posts as from the OP who posted the message about chroot(2).
On 06/03/11 09:09, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
JD writes:
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs, CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT, NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
We are not talking about hacking!! we are talking about normal user interaction, and in this case, limited to running yum update. There is absolutely no danger in doing so - been there and done it.
On 06/03/2011 06:18 PM, JD wrote:
On 06/03/11 09:09, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
JD writes:
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs, CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT, NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
We are not talking about hacking!! we are talking about normal user interaction, and in this case, limited to running yum update. There is absolutely no danger in doing so - been there and done it.
Well I'll try a few harmless things first, just to gain some confidence. Other than that I'm sure I'll manage fine thanks folks.
On 31/05/11 18:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Thanks to everyone who has tried to help.
But a google search of the SCSI card I have installed has found that other distributions also fail to boot, and it appears to be a problem with the Advansys kernel driver. So I'm confident that if I remove the SCSI card the problem will resolve itself. Naturally when I eventually try this I will post the results.
On 06/06/11 20:15, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 31/05/11 18:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page : http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Thanks to everyone who has tried to help.
But a google search of the SCSI card I have installed has found that other distributions also fail to boot, and it appears to be a problem with the Advansys kernel driver. So I'm confident that if I remove the SCSI card the problem will resolve itself. Naturally when I eventually try this I will post the results.
Unless of course a kernel update fix becomes available. But I don't expect that to occur in the next few months.
-
Alex -
JD -
Joe Zeff -
Kevin Fenzi -
Louis Lagendijk -
Marko Vojinovic -
Mike Williams -
Mikkel L. Ellertson -
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 -
Peter Larsen -
Sam Varshavchik -
Timothy Murphy