best video card for fedora 10

[Don Raikes]

Hi everyone,

I have been watching this list for a while.
The ati radeon video card on my gateway desktop has failed, so I am starting to look for a new video card, and am wondering which is the best for fedora 10.

I will do most of my workin console mode ( run level 3), and some work in the gnome desktop.

I am not a gamer of any sort, and do not plan on watching many (if any dvd's) on it. I just need basic video capabilities, and don't want ot spend a ton of money.

Any suggestions appreciated.

[Frank Cox]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:23:46 +0000 (GMT)
Don Raikes wrote:
> The ati radeon video card on my gateway desktop has failed, so I am starting to look for a new video card, and am wondering which is the best for fedora 10.

I have an ATI Raedon X1550 in this computer and it works really well with the
open-source driver that comes with Fedora 10.  I could never get the open
source driver to give me the proper resolution on my wide screen monitor with
Fedora 9 and below (an Acer AL2223W) but it works great now with Fedora 10.

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Don Raikes wrote:
> I will do most of my workin console mode ( run level 3), and some work in
> the gnome desktop.

Stick with the motherboard's onboard Intel graphics. Supports 3D and works great on the modern desktop. No proprietary drivers required. Just install system and go!

[Don Raikes]

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any on-board graphics controller, or at least there is no external port for it :-)
The system is about 5-6 years old or so.

-----Original Message-----
From: Petrus de Calguarium [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: best video card for fedora 10

Don Raikes wrote:
> I will do most of my workin console mode ( run level 3), and some work in
> the gnome desktop.

Stick with the motherboard's onboard Intel graphics. Supports 3D and works great on the modern desktop. No proprietary drivers required. Just install system and go!

[Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak]

Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> >
>
> Stick with the motherboard's onboard Intel graphics. Supports 3D and works great on the modern desktop. No proprietary drivers required. Just install system and go!

Unless you have one of the new systems like the HP DC7900, which has 
Intel graphics and a DisplayPort connector... and no other video 
connectors...

DisplayPort is not yet supported by the intel driver, at all.

I slapped in an ATI card to gain a DVI port, and used the open driver. 
Works fine now.

- Mike

[Leslie S Satenstein]

ATI and Nvidia cannot match what Intel provides in terms of video drivers.  Video using Intel is flawless. Cannot say the same for the other two.

Leslie

--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak  wrote:
From: Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak 
Subject: Re: best video card for fedora 10
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." 
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 9:11 AM

Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> >
>
> Stick with the motherboard's onboard Intel graphics. Supports 3D and

works great on the modern desktop. No proprietary drivers required. Just install
system and go!

Unless you have one of the new systems like the HP DC7900, which has Intel
graphics and a DisplayPort connector... and no other video connectors...

DisplayPort is not yet supported by the intel driver, at all.

I slapped in an ATI card to gain a DVI port, and used the open driver. Works
fine now.

- Mike

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Re[2]: best video card for fedora 10

[Al Dunsmuir]

On Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:15:48 AM, Leslie wrote:
> ATI and Nvidia cannot match what Intel provides in terms of video drivers.
> Video using Intel is flawless. Cannot say the same for the other two.
> Leslie

Leslie,
Intel  video  is  hardly  flawless.  An update in early December has
totally  broken  many F10 users of the Intel driver (especially on Dell
systems, myself included), so they are dead in the water for GUI mode.
This is across all Linux distributions using driver/kernels since about
mid-late November.

If you check other postings to this mailing list, you will see that the
Intel driver is being rewritten, ETA sometime in 2009.  Drivers do not
get rewritten for the heck of it.  In the meantime, fixing the existing
driver has become a low priority - unfortunate but understandable.

Al
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak  wrote:
Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> Stick with the motherboard's onboard Intel graphics. Supports 3D and
> works great on the modern desktop. No proprietary drivers required.
> Just install system and go!

Unless  you  have one of the new systems like the HP DC7900, which has
Intel graphics and a DisplayPort connector... and no other video connectors...
DisplayPort is not yet supported by the intel driver, at all.

I slapped in an ATI card to gain a DVI port, and used the open driver. Works
fine now.
- Mike

[thomas cameron]

Don Raikes wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have been watching this list for a while.
> The ati radeon video card on my gateway desktop has failed, so I am starting to look for a new video card, and am wondering which is the best for fedora 10.
>
> I will do most of my workin console mode ( run level 3), and some work in the gnome desktop.
>
> I am not a gamer of any sort, and do not plan on watching many (if any dvd's) on it. I just need basic video capabilities, and don't want ot spend a ton of money.
>
> Any suggestions appreciated.

I use an NVidia GeForce 7300 GT card that lspci reports as:

nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7300 GT] (rev a1)

I feel kinda dirty saying this, but I use the proprietary NVidia driver 
for it and I have been very impressed with it.  I do dual head using the 
DVI and the VGA ports and it works great with a pair of ViewSonic 
1440x900 LCD flat screens.  Desktop effects and compiz-fusion do the 
cool wobbly window goodness.  Very pretty.  Using the open source 
driver, I've never been able to get dual head to work.  Also, the open 
source driver doesn't seem to do accelerated 3D.  I'm running RHEL 5 on 
this box right now but I go back and forth with Fedora depending on what 
I'm working on, and the NVidia driver works great with both.

From what I typically see on the lists, NVidia cards with the 
proprietary driver typically work well.  That is, if you don't have an 
overwhelming objection to using closed source drivers.

[Kevin Kofler]

Thomas Cameron wrote:
> From what I typically see on the lists, NVidia cards with the
> proprietary driver typically work well.  That is, if you don't have an
> overwhelming objection to using closed source drivers.

You must not be reading the same lists I do... ;-)

I see no ends of complaints on this list as well as the fedora-test-list and
fedora-devel-list and IRC about all sorts of obscure bugs caused by
proprietary drivers (and nvidia in particular). They are not supported nor
even supportable by anybody other than the manufacturer, who usually does a
horrible job, in particular their installer scripts invariably overwrite
system libraries in a way which will break as soon as the system package is
updated and which also makes uninstalling the driver a hit-or-miss
experience.

Don't buy NVidia! Nor a Radeon HD, those are not supported by the Free (as
in speech) drivers yet either.

Kevin Kofler

[Ed Greshko]

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Thomas Cameron wrote:
> > From what I typically see on the lists, NVidia cards with the
> > proprietary driver typically work well.  That is, if you don't have an
> > overwhelming objection to using closed source drivers.
>
> You must not be reading the same lists I do... ;-)

I must be on a totally different list too.  Or maybe it is just that the
happy people don't post too much.

I also have a nVidia Corporation GeForce 7300 GT (rev a2) and use the
binary blob directly from nVidia.  I've been a happy nVidia camper for
the past 6 years.

[Colin J Thomson]

On Tuesday 30 December 2008 03:34:38 Ed Greshko wrote:
> Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > Thomas Cameron wrote:
> > > From what I typically see on the lists, NVidia cards with the
> > > proprietary driver typically work well.  That is, if you don't have an
> > > overwhelming objection to using closed source drivers.
> >
> > You must not be reading the same lists I do... ;-)
>
> I must be on a totally different list too.  Or maybe it is just that the
> happy people don't post too much.
>
> I also have a nVidia Corporation GeForce 7300 GT (rev a2) and use the
> binary blob directly from nVidia.  I've been a happy nVidia camper for
> the past 6 years.

I'm one of those happy nVidia users who don't post much :) well to this list 
anyway. 
I am currently using 7800GS and rpmfusion packaged drivers with no problems, 
KDE Beta runs a treat (with all the fancy desktop effects)

Mobo has an NV chipset and I have had 3-4 NV video cards over the years with 
this mobo.

Colin

[Kevin Cummings]

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Thomas Cameron wrote:
> > From what I typically see on the lists, NVidia cards with the
> > proprietary driver typically work well.  That is, if you don't have an
> > overwhelming objection to using closed source drivers.
>
> You must not be reading the same lists I do... ;-)

I guess it depends on which lists you read and how much faith in put in 
the postings there.

Yes, many people complain on the fedora-list about nVidia and their 
proprietary drivers.  Many of those complaints are rooted in the fact 
(as you elude to below) that they are not free (as in speech).  They are 
free to download and use (but you can't distribute them), and you just 
don't get the same support from nVidia as you would if you were running 
that less secure OS from Redmond, WA.  In fact, in the MythTV world, 
they practically swear by nVidia and nothing else.  And they don't seem 
to have as many problems configuring the proprietary blob as some people 
do here.

So, it all depends on what you want to do with your video card.  In 
another thread someone asked what card was the best for using in 
runlevels 1 & 3.  Well, if all you need is a text console, then *any* 
VGA compatible card will do.  If you want to be able to see graphics, 
maybe a card that support more video modes than 640x480 is better.  If 
you want to watch video, then I would lean towards nVidia.  Their video 
support is *much* further along than Intel or ATI.  Their proprietary 
drivers support XvMC for some of their older hardware and VDPAU support 
for their newer hardware makes displaying HD video much easier on lesser 
capable CPUs.

I'm not a gamer, so I can't speak for the gaming capabilities of the 
various video cards.

So, each question will have different answers depending on the intended 
usage.
> I see no ends of complaints on this list as well as the fedora-test-list and
> fedora-devel-list and IRC about all sorts of obscure bugs caused by
> proprietary drivers (and nvidia in particular). They are not supported nor
> even supportable by anybody other than the manufacturer, who usually does a
> horrible job, in particular their installer scripts invariably overwrite
> system libraries in a way which will break as soon as the system package is
> updated and which also makes uninstalling the driver a hit-or-miss
> experience.
>
> Don't buy NVidia! Nor a Radeon HD, those are not supported by the Free (as
> in speech) drivers yet either.

VESA, nv, nouveau, and nvidia (with 3 different versions for various 
cards) for nVidia hardware, the last one (three) is (are) the 
proprietary driver(s).  I run the nvidia-96xx version on my old MX400 
card which is soon to be replaced by an nVidia 6200 card (the gold 
standard for MythTV SD TV support).  Yes, my home Fedora server is also 
my MythTV backend.

VESA, ati, radeon, radeonhd, and fglrx for ATI hardware, the last one 
again being the proprietary driver.  My laptop has a Mobility Radeon 
X1600 video chipset which requires the fglrx drivers for best use of 
videos, and I wish to hell it was an nVidia chipset instead on ATI.
I also have a very old machine with a Radeon 7000 video card, and its 
practically useless for displaying even SD video.

I'm not even sure about the Intel drivers, but these are mostly 
motherboard video chipsets, so if you have one, you don't have much choice.
>     Kevin Kofler

[Kevin Kofler]

Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> VESA, nv, nouveau, and nvidia (with 3 different versions for various
> cards) for nVidia hardware, the last one (three) is (are) the
> proprietary driver(s).

... and the others don't have working 3D acceleration, VESA and (I think) nv
don't even have 2D XRender acceleration.
> VESA, ati, radeon, radeonhd, and fglrx for ATI hardware, the last one
> again being the proprietary driver.  My laptop has a Mobility Radeon
> X1600 video chipset which requires the fglrx drivers for best use of
> videos, and I wish to hell it was an nVidia chipset instead on ATI.

Yet you get working 2D (including Xv, which is what you probably care about
the most) and 3D acceleration in the Free (as in speech) radeon driver with
that chipset. As for XvMC, that card doesn't have a UVD chip (only the
Radeon HD cards do), so you don't get XvMC even with the proprietary
driver. When have you last tried the Free radeon driver? If it was before
r5xx acceleration was added (in the F9 updates around June), then of course
it was slow back then, try it again now.

Oh, and some news from the Radeon HD world:
http://airlied.livejournal.com/64691.html
:-)
Not ready for production use yet though... And probably no XvMC.

Kevin Kofler

[Ian Pilcher]

Thomas Cameron wrote:
> I feel kinda dirty saying this, but I use the proprietary NVidia driver
> for it and I have been very impressed with it.

As you should.  ;-)

If you're looking for an add-in card (i.e. non-Intel) with the best
chance of having decent open source support, I'd recommend going with
an ATI R500-based card.  I've been able to get a very nice dual-head
setup working with the radeonhd driver and my X1650 card.  There's even
a chance that it will have working 3-D acceleration someday.

[Kevin Kofler]

Ian Pilcher wrote:
> If you're looking for an add-in card (i.e. non-Intel) with the best
> chance of having decent open source support, I'd recommend going with
> an ATI R500-based card.  I've been able to get a very nice dual-head
> setup working with the radeonhd driver and my X1650 card.  There's even
> a chance that it will have working 3-D acceleration someday.

3D acceleration is supposed to be already working, is it not?

Have you tried the regular radeon (or ati, which will just load radeon)
driver instead of radeonhd?

Kevin Kofler

[Ian Pilcher]

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> 3D acceleration is supposed to be already working, is it not?

I believe that it may work with R500 cards in Fedora 10.  It looks like
I'll be stuck on Fedora 8 for the foreseeable future, so I haven't tried
testing it.

I also suspect that a dual-head setup may disable it.
> Have you tried the regular radeon (or ati, which will just load radeon)
> driver instead of radeonhd?

Couldn't get dual-head to work with the radeon driver.

[Kevin Kofler]

Ian Pilcher wrote:
> I believe that it may work with R500 cards in Fedora 10.

F9 updates too.
> It looks like I'll be stuck on Fedora 8 for the foreseeable future,

Well, that explains it. F8 is no longer supported, you should have already
upgraded.
> I also suspect that a dual-head setup may disable it.

Well, that may be a source of problems, but not necessarily.

Kevin Kofler

[Leslie S Satenstein]

I don't have much faith in Fedora to be able to run ATI cards. I have Fedora on an Intel motherboard with the integrated video, and that one works 100%, with no fiddling,  now having to install firmware, or do esoteric things.

My ATI eah3450 card is accepted with Firmware (Proof is that under ubuntu it works 100%) but under Fedora, I cannot get it to work with compiz or with as many combinations of resolutions and horizontal sweep frequencies.  I wish I was able to lift the video stuff from Ubuntu and install it in Fedora.

--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Ian Pilcher  wrote:
From: Ian Pilcher 
Subject: Re: best video card for fedora 10
To: [e-mail]
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 3:10 AM

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> 3D acceleration is supposed to be already working, is it not?

I believe that it may work with R500 cards in Fedora 10.  It looks like
I'll be stuck on Fedora 8 for the foreseeable future, so I haven't
tried
testing it.

I also suspect that a dual-head setup may disable it.
> Have you tried the regular radeon (or ati, which will just load radeon)
> driver instead of radeonhd?

Couldn't get dual-head to work with the radeon driver.

[Kevin Kofler]

Don Raikes wrote:
> The ati radeon video card on my gateway desktop has failed, so I am
> starting to look for a new video card, and am wondering which is the best
> for fedora 10.
>
> I will do most of my workin console mode ( run level 3), and some work in
> the gnome desktop.
>
> I am not a gamer of any sort, and do not plan on watching many (if any
> dvd's) on it. I just need basic video capabilities, and don't want ot
> spend a ton of money.

You want another Radeon, one of the cheaper ones which are also supported by
the Free Software drivers.

This is the current status:
http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon
The Radeon 7000 - X1950 range is what you're looking for. Most likely you
want something on the lower end of the scale, given your requirements.

Don't buy a Radeon in the X/HD 2000 - X/HD 4870 range though:
* Those are not supported by the Free drivers yet, only by a buggy
proprietary driver which last I checked was reported not to work on Fedora
10 at all. The DRI status page claims that "first working 3D snapshot
drivers are probably available by the end of 2008", but it's almost the end
of 2008 already and no such thing is in sight.
* They're also too expensive and powerful for the kind of use you're
describing.

And whatever you do, DON'T BUY NVIDIA!

Kevin Kofler