4:01 p.m.
Is there a standard for how multi-axis trackballs (spaceballs)
interact with X? Are they common enough to "just work" now or is it
the usual proprietary-hardware-nightmare still?
The common trackball seems to have the ball, some scrollwheel
replacement and a bunch of buttons. It would be nice to be able to
*rotate* the ball, or push it in various directions, etc. But only if
there's a sane mapping to X events.
8:05 a.m.
Coming into this discussion a bit late...
We (my work) also refer to these devices as SpaceBalls as they used to
have a ball, and every axis is controlled by a strain gage. The
original ones were serial but my current HP SpacePilot is USB based
and has a knob instead of a ball.
I would be willing to test if anyone would like (Shhh... Don't tell
anyone, I dual boot my work laptop to Fedora :) I saw some references
to xevent or xev.
Thanks,
Richard
12:04 a.m.
On 07/06/2011 04:22 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
<>
Not at all, since I'm talking about spaceballs, not trackballs.
ok. so how about a link to who makes 'spaceballs'.
A spaceball can sense not only the usual X/Y rolling motion that a
trackball supports, but it can also sense rotation (CW/CCW) and pressure
(think "clicking" the ball itself, in various directions (X/Y/Z)).
cw/ccw rotation can very well be detected as standard trackball x/y.
'z' could be from a strain gauge, or thru leverage.
for sure, cw/ccw and x/y/z will need special drivers.
have you checked oem site to see just what they reveal?
--
peace out.
tc.hago,
g
.
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1:03 a.m.
New subject: spaceballs
On 07/06/2011 07:31 AM, g wrote:
so if you are interested in a 3d mouse, which really is not a
*ball*,
even tho called such,
Earlier DLR/3DConnexion "space mouses" looked like
balls on a pole.
Ca. 6-8 cms/2-3 inches in diameter, looking a bit like an oversized
"golfball on a tee on a display-board".
see http://www.dlr.de/rm/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-3808/6234_read-8998/
An image of the space mouse/ball can be found on the left side on the
center of the page. IIRC, earlier versions were larger and had a
rectangular box underneath the ball.
Colloquially, they often were called "space balls", though the article
tells the DLR initially had called the device "Control Ball".
Ralf
12:49 a.m.
On 07/06/2011 06:22 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
g<geleem(a)bellsouth.net> writes:
>> It would be nice to be able to *rotate* the ball, or push it in
>> various directions, etc. But only if there's a sane mapping to X
>> events.
>
> *roll* would be a better description than 'rotate'.
Not at all, since I'm talking about spaceballs, not trackballs.
A spaceball can sense not only the usual X/Y rolling motion that a
trackball supports, but it can also sense rotation (CW/CCW) and pressure
(think "clicking" the ball itself, in various directions (X/Y/Z)).
The terminology former co-workers of mine used, who used to operate such
a device, was that being used in flight dynamics/robotics/3D/CAD: pitch,
roll, yaw
Wrt. your original question, I don't know the answer. At least, with the
fairly common Magellan/SpacePilot/SpaceExplorer/SpaceNavigator family,
though there is some limited linux support, I gather it's still it's all
proprietary/mostly closed-source [1].
May-be you should ask the vendor/manufacturer (in case of the
SpaceNavigator 3dconnexion.{de,com})?
Ralf
[1] For further reading http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/60918
seems to be a good start.
12:31 a.m.
New subject: spaceballs
On 07/06/2011 05:04 AM, g wrote:
On 07/06/2011 04:22 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
<>
> Not at all, since I'm talking about spaceballs, not trackballs.
ok. so how about a link to who makes 'spaceballs'.
well, not to wait for a reply, a quick google search provided some
answers.
Logitech's subsidiary, 3Dconnexion, is a maker of '3d' mice, which i was
aware of, but not aware of use of term 'spaceball'.
checking 3Dconnexion site;
http://www.3dconnexion.com/
led to;
http://www.3dconnexion.com/service/drivers.html
where a search of product and os shows that not all of the 3d mice are
linux compatible.
so if you are interested in a 3d mouse, which really is not a *ball*,
even tho called such, you will need to check second link to see which
3d mice have linux drivers.
hth.
--
peace out.
tc.hago,
g
.
****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
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The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
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****
11:22 p.m.
g <geleem(a)bellsouth.net> writes:
> It would be nice to be able to *rotate* the ball, or push it in
> various directions, etc. But only if there's a sane mapping to X
> events.
*roll* would be a better description than 'rotate'.
Not at all, since I'm talking about spaceballs, not trackballs.
A spaceball can sense not only the usual X/Y rolling motion that a
trackball supports, but it can also sense rotation (CW/CCW) and pressure
(think "clicking" the ball itself, in various directions (X/Y/Z)).
11:17 p.m.
Rick Stevens <ricks(a)nerd.com> writes:
As I said, try it and see.
They're too expensive to "just try it", hence wanting to see if someone
else has already tried it and had some info on how well X interacted
with the hardware, and if there was a standard way to talk to it from
software.
You might want to try xev.
I know about xev, thanks.
10:21 p.m.
On 07/06/2011 03:06 AM, g wrote:
<>
there are ir leds emitting at surface of balls and ir detectors
receiving
reflections from ball surface.
in addition, there are some trackball mice that use a roller bar, ie, like
a standard mouse. i do not recommend them. they do not track well.
you will also find 'palm ball' types, but they are not as convent to use
as a 'thumb ball'. i had one and gave it away.
--
peace out.
tc.hago,
g
.
5:50 p.m.
On 07/05/2011 02:39 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Rick Stevens <ricks(a)nerd.com> writes:
> I'd bring up xevent or whatever and push/pull/poke/twist, take note of
> what events it generates and do your own thing.
At this point, I'm still wondering if ANYTHING would show up in xevent
:-)
I know XInput can handle a larger numbers of buttons. Can it handle
more than two motion channels? I know they won't map to the X cursor's
X,Y location, but still, if that's what the spaceball is producing...
As I said, try it and see. You might want to try xev. It shows motion
events and the lot. You should be able to get anything the beastie
spits out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
4:39 p.m.
Rick Stevens <ricks(a)nerd.com> writes:
I'd bring up xevent or whatever and push/pull/poke/twist, take
note of
what events it generates and do your own thing.
At this point, I'm still wondering if ANYTHING would show up in xevent
:-)
I know XInput can handle a larger numbers of buttons. Can it handle
more than two motion channels? I know they won't map to the X cursor's
X,Y location, but still, if that's what the spaceball is producing...
4:14 p.m.
On 07/05/2011 02:01 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Is there a standard for how multi-axis trackballs (spaceballs)
interact with X? Are they common enough to "just work" now or is it
the usual proprietary-hardware-nightmare still?
"They've gone.......plaid! Prepare for ludicrous speed!" (sorry,
couldn't resist a Mel Brooks plug)
The common trackball seems to have the ball, some scrollwheel
replacement and a bunch of buttons. It would be nice to be able to
*rotate* the ball, or push it in various directions, etc. But only if
there's a sane mapping to X events.
I've never seen a standard mapping for them. They are pretty open to
interpretation so you may have a problem finding a consensus.
I'd bring up xevent or whatever and push/pull/poke/twist, take note
of what events it generates and do your own thing. Perhaps THAT would
become the standard. We have to start somewhere, your idea may be the
start of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks(a)nerd.com -
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- -
- grasshopotomaus: A creature that can leap to tremendous heights... -
- ...once. -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
10:06 p.m.
On 07/05/2011 09:01 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Is there a standard for how multi-axis trackballs (spaceballs)
interact with X? Are they common enough to "just work" now or is it
the usual proprietary-hardware-nightmare still?
axis are 'x' and 'y'. no 'z', or other direction.
The common trackball seems to have the ball, some scrollwheel
replacement and a bunch of buttons and portions of angle. It would be nice to be able
to
*rotate* the ball, or push it in various directions, etc. But only if
there's a sane mapping to X events.
*roll* would be a better description than 'rotate'.
with 'optical' trackballs, you will note that they are of two colors,
most being red with black dots.
there are ir leds emitting at surface of balls and ir detectors receiving
reflections from ball surface.
the arrangement of leds and detectors are such that, when track ball is
rolled, the movement can be determined and passed to circuitry that can
determine 'x' - 'y' movement.
output from this circuitry is _pure_ 'x' - 'y' and ratio determines
amount
of angular movement, same as with a standard mouse.
i have been using a Logitech TrackMan Marble m/n T-CH11, 3 button thumb
marble, with ps/2 connector, that i purchased about 6 months after they
where first released.
from day one of use, i have never had a problem using it and have noted
that it has always been listed as a "PS/2 Logitech Mouse".
from which i can conclude that there is nothing really special in signal
output or the drivers used.
even when X used a config file for keyboard, monitor, video card, mouse,
etc, there has never been anything special in configuration.
so, long story short, if you want a trackball mouse, i recommend that you
get a Logitech 'thumb marble' mouse.
you should have no problems using it and linux will see it and install the
proper driver.
advantages that i have found with my 'space ball' is that it is convent,
comfortable, fast, easy to use, and i can still have a messy desktop.
i do recommend that you get a small stiff bristle brush to keep the 3
'bearing points' clean because they will build up with dust and slow down
ball movement.
hth.
--
peace out.
tc.hago,
g
.
****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****
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12 comments
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participants (5)
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Ralf Corsepius -
Richard Shaw -
Rick Stevens