Use case to cover: Bundling of WASM in Node.js

[Vít Ondruch]

Hi,

I have just joined the ML and I'll be probably mainly observing.

But I think that there is one major use case which is missing in the 
wiki page and that is the issue with bundled WASM code in Node.js. While 
having compiler ready is certainly precondition, I think that the 
bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.

Vít

[Michael Dawson]

> I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.

Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js needs to be
able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can rebuild it, or something else?

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 6:50 AM Vít Ondruch  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have just joined the ML and I'll be probably mainly observing.
>
> But I think that there is one major use case which is missing in the
> wiki page and that is the issue with bundled WASM code in Node.js. While
> having compiler ready is certainly precondition, I think that the
> bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
>
> Vít
>
> Wasm-sig mailing list -- [e-mail]
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[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 24. 01. 23 v 15:26 Michael Dawson napsal(a):
> > I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
>
> Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js needs to 
> be able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can rebuild it, or 
> something else?

I mean that when there is some WASM file included in Node.js, we have to 
be able to replace this file with file compiled from plain sources. IOW, 
we must adhere to this guideline:

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/what-can-be-packag...

Actually I think that the guideline should be extended to include the 
WASM files.

Vít
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 6:50 AM Vít Ondruch  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have just joined the ML and I'll be probably mainly observing.
>
> But I think that there is one major use case which is missing in the
> wiki page and that is the issue with bundled WASM code in Node.js.
> While
> having compiler ready is certainly precondition, I think that the
> bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
>
>
> Vít
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wasm-sig mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
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[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 at 18:30, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Dne 24. 01. 23 v 15:26 Michael Dawson napsal(a):
> > > I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
> >
> > Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js needs to be
> > able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can rebuild it, or something
> > else?
>
> I mean that when there is some WASM file included in Node.js, we have to be
> able to replace this file with file compiled from plain sources. IOW, we
> must adhere to this guideline:
>
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/what-can-be-packag...
>
> Actually I think that the guideline should be extended to include the WASM
> files.

The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
with wat2wasm (from wabt package) from .wat sources. Possibly, they
could be further optimized with wasm-opt (from binaryen package).

Regards,
Dominik

[Michael Dawson]

Thanks for the clarification. I added that use case into the list here:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/WASM#What%27s_needed_for_use_cases_we_wa...

Feel free to edit/improve that section in the Wiki if I've not captured
what you had in mind.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 3:48 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 at 18:30, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> > Dne 24. 01. 23 v 15:26 Michael Dawson napsal(a):
> > > > I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
> > >
> > > Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js needs to be
> > > able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can rebuild it, or something
> > > else?
> >
> > I mean that when there is some WASM file included in Node.js, we have to
>
> be
> > able to replace this file with file compiled from plain sources. IOW, we
> > must adhere to this guideline:
>
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/what-can-be-packag...
> > Actually I think that the guideline should be extended to include the
>
> WASM
> > files.
>
> The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
> with wat2wasm (from wabt package) from .wat sources. Possibly, they
> could be further optimized with wasm-opt (from binaryen package).
>
> Regards,
> Dominik
> --
> Fedora   https://getfedora.org  |  RPM Fusion  http://rpmfusion.org
> There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
> oppression to develop psychic muscles.
>         -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
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[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 24. 01. 23 v 21:48 Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski napsal(a):
> On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 at 18:30, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> > Dne 24. 01. 23 v 15:26 Michael Dawson napsal(a):
> > > > I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
> > >
> > > Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js needs to be
> > > able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can rebuild it, or something
> > > else?
> >
> > I mean that when there is some WASM file included in Node.js, we have to be
> > able to replace this file with file compiled from plain sources. IOW, we
> > must adhere to this guideline:
> >
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/what-can-be-packag...
> >
> > Actually I think that the guideline should be extended to include the WASM
> > files.
>
> The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
> with wat2wasm (from wabt package) from .wat sources. Possibly, they
> could be further optimized with wasm-opt (from binaryen package).

Never heard of this and I am not entirely sure how that would look in 
practice.

So this is one of the cases AFAIK. Node.js bundles llhttp:

https://github.com/nodejs/node/tree/main/deps/undici/src/lib/llhttp

And there are various WASM files. And this is llhttp source:

https://github.com/nodejs/llhttp

Now how would the wat2wasm help here? Could you please elaborate?

Vít
> Regards,
> Dominik

[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 at 10:15, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Dne 24. 01. 23 v 21:48 Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski napsal(a):
> > On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 at 18:30, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> > > Dne 24. 01. 23 v 15:26 Michael Dawson napsal(a):
> > > > > I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js
> > > > needs to be able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can
> > > > rebuild it, or something else?
> > >
> > > I mean that when there is some WASM file included in Node.js, we
> > > have to be able to replace this file with file compiled from plain
> > > sources. IOW, we must adhere to this guideline:
> > >
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/what-can-be-packag...
> > >
> > > Actually I think that the guideline should be extended to include
> > > the WASM files.
> >
> > The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
> > with wat2wasm (from wabt package) from .wat sources. Possibly, they
> > could be further optimized with wasm-opt (from binaryen package).
>
> Never heard of this and I am not entirely sure how that would look in
> practice.
>
> So this is one of the cases AFAIK. Node.js bundles llhttp:
>
> https://github.com/nodejs/node/tree/main/deps/undici/src/lib/llhttp
>
> And there are various WASM files. And this is llhttp source:
>
> https://github.com/nodejs/llhttp
>
> Now how would the wat2wasm help here? Could you please elaborate?

It would help if they were built from WAT sources. WAT is like ASM
sources for regular binaries. llhttp seems to be written partially in
TypeScript which I'm not familiar with. However, WASM files must be
treated like any other binaries. They must not be packaged directly from
upstream in a Fedora package. In case of llhttp, it seems one needs
a C-to-WASM compiler as C sources are generated with llparse from
TypeScript sources.

So, let me rephrase:

The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
with appropriate compiler from source.

Example compilers:
WAT : wat2wasm (wabt)
C   : ???
...

Regards,
Dominik

[Tom Stellard]

On 1/25/23 13:04, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
> On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 at 10:15, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> > Dne 24. 01. 23 v 21:48 Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski napsal(a):
> > > On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 at 18:30, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> > > > Dne 24. 01. 23 v 15:26 Michael Dawson napsal(a):
> > > > > > I think that the bundling in Node.js should not be forgotten.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for identifying that. To clarify do you mean Node.js
> > > > > needs to be able to bundle in externalized WASM so we can
> > > > > rebuild it, or something else?
> > > >
> > > > I mean that when there is some WASM file included in Node.js, we
> > > > have to be able to replace this file with file compiled from plain
> > > > sources. IOW, we must adhere to this guideline:
> > > >
> > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/what-can-be-packag...
> > > >
> > > > Actually I think that the guideline should be extended to include
> > > > the WASM files.
> > >
> > > The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
> > > with wat2wasm (from wabt package) from .wat sources. Possibly, they
> > > could be further optimized with wasm-opt (from binaryen package).
> >
> > Never heard of this and I am not entirely sure how that would look in
> > practice.
> >
> > So this is one of the cases AFAIK. Node.js bundles llhttp:
> >
> > https://github.com/nodejs/node/tree/main/deps/undici/src/lib/llhttp
> >
> > And there are various WASM files. And this is llhttp source:
> >
> > https://github.com/nodejs/llhttp
> >
> > Now how would the wat2wasm help here? Could you please elaborate?
>
> It would help if they were built from WAT sources. WAT is like ASM
> sources for regular binaries. llhttp seems to be written partially in
> TypeScript which I'm not familiar with. However, WASM files must be
> treated like any other binaries. They must not be packaged directly from
> upstream in a Fedora package. In case of llhttp, it seems one needs
> a C-to-WASM compiler as C sources are generated with llparse from
> TypeScript sources.
>
> So, let me rephrase:
>
> The precompiled .wasm files should be removed in %prep and recompiled
> with appropriate compiler from source.
>
> Example compilers:
> WAT : wat2wasm (wabt)
> C   : ???

clang compiles C to WASM.

-Tom
> ...
>
> Regards,
> Dominik