Hi Websites team:
We are scheduled for a meeting tonight. I think the main topics for
conversation are the "Default spin of Fedora" thread & how that impacts
our get-fedora mockup work. Furthermore, I would like to give you guys
the basic plan for the spins.fedoraproject.org work that I want to try
to achieve at FUDCon.
Hello every one,
I've just added my self to the contributors list of fedora websites, I wanna
give the community back, they gave me a lot
my first fedora experience was core 6, and I use it since that on my office
workstation, my laptop, my home entertainment tower.
I'm a professional python, php, mysql developer. professional means that I
live from it ;-), I used to build custom content management systems for
different client's sites, and now working on a new cms I call it aikicms,
will be online soon ( two months from now that what I call soon), it's php
and mysql, and will be released under GPL. I'll tell you more about it soon,
it has some unique features. I call those features ( the self constracted
admin tools ).
will aikicms isn't the most importent part here,
please tell me how can I start helping you? I realy love and want to..
Thank you all
Bart and I had an interesting conversation about website translations
last night (below), and I think it highlights some of our main
challenges with our current translator workflow. I probably won't be
able to make the meeting tomorrow, but it'd be great to start up a
conversation about this (and i18n/l10n people as well).
02:17 < ricky> Argh, this is hard :-(
02:17 < ricky> I need to think a bit more before jumping into anything.
02:22 < couf> ricky: what's your plan with xml2po?
02:22 * couf just noticed a commit
02:24 < ricky> I've been experimenting with it, but there are downsides
that I didn't see earlier.
02:24 < couf> have you looked at how the docs team uses it?
02:24 < ricky> For example, since it'd be extracting text directly from
a generated site, it'd shut out any possibility of non-hacky "dynamic"
02:24 < ricky> (As in, content that updates on every website build)
02:25 < ricky> The other downside is that it'd require serious po file
manipulation to migrate over.
02:25 < ricky> couf: Yeah, stickster_afk's the person that mentioned it
02:26 < couf> yeah, that's a serious downside
02:26 < ricky> Their needs are slightly different from ours, though.
02:26 < ricky> :-(
02:26 < ricky> Here's the easiest solution for me.
02:26 < ricky> Take the git repo, make a directory for each language,
completely break the workflow for translators and have them maintain
parallel versions of the website for each language.
02:27 < ricky> That's really hard on translators, though.
02:27 < ricky> (And there are issues such as - how does a translator
know when they need to update their translation?)
02:28 < ricky> I don't know... I'm not sure if PO files work well for
fast-changing things like a website.
02:28 < ricky> I've been getting pain at every corner.
02:28 < ricky> Making the templating system substitute the right text...
02:28 < ricky> String extraction... sucks.
02:29 < ricky> Making sure that all translations are always in sync also
02:29 < couf> right :-/
02:30 < ricky> So some general questions - how hard should I be trying
to maintain the standard translator workflow?
02:30 < ricky> Which of the two problems (PO files vs. maintaining
parallel versions) is more easily solvable?
02:31 < ricky> And I guess, what uses are we looking at with the website
(and how will our choice of handling translations affect them?)
02:32 < couf> well from the translators viewpoint having parallel
versions would erase all efforts L10N has been trying to do to create a
standard workflow for everything
02:32 < ricky> Yeah, and I really don't want to do that
02:33 < couf> OTOH I do get that this will lead to more bad then good in
02:33 < couf> as PO-based work isn't really fitted for this stuff
02:34 < ricky> I'm not even 100% aware of a good alternative to PO-based
02:34 < couf> neither am I
02:34 < ricky> With parallel versions, it's still a big challenge to
keep in sync with the original version.
02:36 < couf> hmm, we might want to cut down on translators a bit, have
the languages sync up at release time and let the original change
everytime we feel like it needs to
02:36 < couf> when it comes to users I'd say most users come to the site
to download Fedora, and for the rest they would divert to the
fedora-specific site in their locale like projectofedora.br and such
02:39 < ricky> Hm.
02:39 < ricky> Should that be our websites vision for the future?
02:40 < couf> I don't know, but we should think about it somehow
02:40 < ricky> And we have the exact same problem on other websites
(even if they aren't supposed to be updated as often)
02:40 < ricky> Yeah.
02:42 * ricky wonders what the rest of the l10n team has to say about
02:43 < couf> they probably won't like it :)
02:43 < ricky> Well, not the parallel versions thing (which I'm not
considering quite yet)
02:43 < ricky> Just how we can handle translations for something like a
02:44 < ricky> I wonder if anybody has experience doing something like
this in a job or anything.
02:44 < ricky> I guess I should also mention that wiki translations will
kind of break the workflow in the same way.
02:46 < couf> yeah, some have been talking of a PO-extraction layer on
top of MW-API to make it sort of work with the workflow, but I'm not
sure if that'll work in the end
02:48 < ricky> Yeah. This would be something that updates even faster
than a website.
02:49 < couf> right, so in the end it looks like PO doesn't scale to
02:50 * couf notes: personal view, not L10N's view :)
02:53 < ivazquez> Perhaps this is a conversation we should be having in
02:58 < ricky> Good point
02:58 < ricky> I'm actually going to get some sleep now
02:58 < ricky> couf: I think we touched over some important points in
this conversation - mind if I send it to websites-list?
02:59 < ricky> (I want to get it in the discussion in tomorrow's
meeting, even if I won't be there)
02:59 < couf> sure go ahead
I'm Matt Lee, Campaigns Manager at the Free Software Foundation.
I went to Fudcon yesterday, and it was great to meet some of you.
I was so impressed by yesterday, that I've wiped my laptop and moved
to Fedora. I'm blogging my experiences as part of my on-going project,
Exploring Freedom -- http://exploringfreedom.org/
One of my roles within the FSF is to maintain our websites, and I'm
also presently (still) volunteering in my spare time to run the
website for the GNU Operating System -- http://www.gnu.org/
As GNU and Fedora have much in common, I'd like to try my hand at
getting involved here. And I'm sure you've all my attempts to find
various things on the Fedora Project website, as posted yesterday.
I'm unsure how to proceed further, so I thought I'd send this out
there and let people give me some feedback.
(I should say, for clarity, that any work I do for Fedora would be my
own volunteer work, and wouldn't be official FSF work, or an
endorsement of Fedora, etc.)
Printing the Wiki doesn't work on Firefox 2, Firefox 3, and Internet
For example, open this page on FFX 2 or 3:
Select the browser's "File/Print" option. On Firefox 2, you'll get the
sidebar and the first few lines of text, and nothing else. On Firefox 3
and IE, you get only the sidebar.
If you click on "Printable version" and then select "File/Print", you
get the same result.
It looks like a style sheet customization is wrong - perhaps it's
backwards! At the least, the "printable version" shouldn't be showing
the side bar frame (Main Page, Events, Recent Changes, etc.) at _all_.
--- David A. Wheeler