Questions about Wiki translations
by Jean-Baptiste Hétier
Hello,
I would be interested in translating Wiki Pages from English to French. I
have read the instructions on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages#Translating but I have a few
questions left before getting started.
First of all, as I understood, the translation's dictionary (FrenchDict for
instance) is supposed to be a mapping between English pages and translated
pages. I've had a look at FrenchDict and GermanDict and was surprised to
see that they both contain such a mapping *and* translations of English
terms into French and German. Did I miss something or are such
translations of English terms not supposed to be part of the dictionary?
Also, how does the Wiki uses that dictionary? On the Wikipedia for
example, when a page is available in other languages, there is a link in
the left-hand menu. Is there a similar feature on FedoraProject? Is it
not active for the moment?
Eventually, how can a user search for pages in his/her language? Such a
feature is (I think) essential but I didn't find it.
Thank you for your help.
Sincerely
--
Jean-Baptiste
14 years, 8 months
Fedora bug submitting process
by Ricky Zhou
Hey, Jon and I had a great conversation (log below) about how confusing
submitting a bug to Fedora can be. There are a ton of great points here
about some of the useless/confusing fields that get presented.
I'm not sure what options we have for improving this, whether it's
making a friendly, stripped down page for bug submission (which won't
help the situation with the bug pages themselves, unfortunately), or
maybe having a simplified, step-by-step bug submission form like GNOME
has (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi), but this area
definitely needs our attention - bug reporting is one of the easiest
ways to make the jump from Fedora users to Fedora contributors, which is
very important :-)
01:21 < mccann> hey ricky
01:42 < ricky> mccann: Hey
01:42 < mccann> ricky: hey again :)
01:43 < mccann> ricky: is there anyone thinking about or working on making a separate bugzilla for fedora?
01:43 < ricky> No, thankfully :-) Running a bugzilla is *painful*
01:44 < ricky> Luckily, Red Hat has people dedicated to running their bugzilla, so we're very happy to be able to use that :-)
01:46 < mccann> well many of us are not so happy
01:46 < mccann> besides the reasons you gave it doesn't make much sense to share them
01:47 < ricky> Wellll, it is very nice to share bugs with RHEL as well
01:47 < ricky> For example, a lot of times, security/other bugs that get reported against Fedora/RHEL apply to upstream/downstream as well
01:48 < mccann> linking bugs sure
01:49 < mccann> but fedora and rhel have dramatically different audiences
01:49 < mccann> and should be designed as such
01:49 < mccann> currently red hat bugzilla is completely inappropriate for fedora
01:49 < ricky> In what places?
01:49 < mccann> in everything
01:49 < mccann> the design
01:50 < mccann> it is just targeting the wrong audience
01:50 * ricky hates the slowness for example, but that's my biggest complaint
01:52 -!- daMaestro [n=jon@fedora/damaestro] has joined #fedora-websites
01:55 < ricky> Are there specific pages that are particularly wrongly targetted?
01:56 < ricky> Like the individual bug pages, or the bug submission page?
01:56 < ricky> Oh, and my second biggest complaint is the poor integration with FAS, which we unfortunately have to live with :-(
01:57 < ricky> One thing that we can do with the new bug page is design a better interface to that
02:01 < mccann> the new bug workflow is horrific
02:01 < mccann> scares me
02:02 < mccann> bug yeah I think the FAS thing is a problem too
02:02 < mccann> we should be integrating with koji and stuff too right?
02:02 < ricky> Yeah. Of all the problems, the FAS one is the most hopeless one
02:02 < mccann> stuff that launchpad does maybe
02:02 < ricky> In what ways could it interface with koji?
02:02 < mccann> or the simplicity of kwestie
02:03 < ricky> And what are the main confusing parts in the new bug page?
02:03 < mccann> ricky: the whole new bug workflow is bad not just the page
02:03 * ricky is looking at it now :-)
02:03 < mccann> choosing Fedora vs. Red Hat is bad
02:03 * mccann pulls it up
02:03 < ricky> The first impression is that you have to click through two screens to get to the place that 90% of Fedora bugzilla users probably want to go
02:04 < mccann> first of all https://bugzilla.redhat.com/ is strange
02:04 < mccann> since I was looking for fedora and i got this
02:04 < mccann> makes me do a double take
02:04 < ricky> Yeah, the front page looks totally Red Hat/RHEL-centric
02:05 < mccann> if I manage to get past that... and many may not
02:05 < ricky> It might be good to have common links on the front page
02:05 < ricky> For example, one that goes directly to reporting bugs in RHEL, Fedora, and EPEL
02:05 < mccann> well for me I'd prefer to have a different account for my fedora bugs and my rhel bugs
02:05 < mccann> but i'll be specific about the new bug workflow for now
02:05 < mccann> i clicked new
02:06 < ricky> Darn, mizmo isn't around - she'd be the first person I'd want to be here for a discussion like this :-)
02:06 < mccann> what does "All: Show all products" mean?
02:06 < ricky> Wow, I had never clicked that link before
02:06 < mccann> its the first one :)
02:06 < ricky> I wasn't aware that jboss stuff was here as well
02:06 < mccann> and other? wtf
02:07 < mccann> i want fedora
02:07 < mccann> ok I click Fedora (duh)
02:07 < mccann> ok now what is all this stuff
02:07 < ricky> OK, so that's annoying/useless, but hopefully not too confusing yet
02:07 < mccann> i have another list
02:07 < ricky> Yeah - if anything, I'd emphasize Fedora/EPEL more
02:07 < mccann> annoying is worse than confusing
02:07 < ricky> I'd rename "Fedora EPEL" to "EPEL" to reduce confusion there
02:07 < mccann> point is that at every turn people will flee
02:08 < ricky> Fedora Hosted Projects needs to die
02:08 < ricky> I don't even know what Fedora Management Console is
02:08 < mccann> creating a bug MUST be one click from the home screen
02:08 < ricky> And documentation/localization should stay but be deemphasized
02:08 < ricky> Agreed - that's a good requirement to have
02:08 < ricky> Two clicks to downloading Fedora was one of our requirements when designing the get-fedora page
02:09 < mccann> and only require the minimum but allow me to add what I can
02:09 < mccann> anyway so at that screen I click "Fedora" (again)
02:09 < ricky> OK, so I think we have a lot of good comments so far - onto the next step - click Fedora again, wait a minute for the gian list to show up
02:09 < mccann> and now I wait a long time :)
02:09 < ricky> One thing that I think can be confusing to a lot of people is the terminology
02:10 < ricky> Stuff like "Product" and "Component" aren't that obvious to people
02:10 < ricky> s/aren't/isn't
02:10 < mccann> and now the screen of doom
02:10 * ricky would care about packages, not components
02:11 < mccann> big picture: most of this stuff is pointless or i have no idea what it is (even for me) and it gives me no idea what it important or required
02:11 < ricky> OK, let's go through the fields one by one
02:11 < mccann> if i just go down to the description and then submit it - i'll get an error
02:11 < mccann> the point is not the fields themselves necessarily
02:11 < ricky> The sheer number of them?
02:11 < mccann> the point is that I should just enter what I'm seeing and that should be enough
02:12 < ricky> I can see where you're coming from with that - but I think the line needs to be drawn at selecting a component, at least
02:13 < ricky> The OS field is particularly useless here :-)
02:13 < mccann> well what if I don't know the component?
02:13 < ricky> As is target milestone
02:13 < mccann> i design the OS and many times I don't know what is causing the specific problem
02:13 < ricky> Hm.
02:14 < mccann> i go to the emergency room and I don't diagnose myself
02:14 < mccann> i tell them my leg hurts
02:14 < mccann> doctor tells me that it isn't my leg it is shoes that are the problem
02:14 < ricky> Maybe there needs to be a catchall component if the users don't know. Not sure how such a thing is implemented in bugzilla or if the triaging team has the ability to take on a lot of that type of bug
02:15 < mccann> so let's assume for a moment that i want a top to bottom workflow
02:15 < mccann> let's go down in order
02:15 < mccann> product fedora - um yeah i guess
02:15 < mccann> component: dunno
02:15 < mccann> reporter: ?
02:16 < mccann> me of course
02:16 < mccann> and why is that over to the right
02:16 < mccann> version
02:16 < mccann> of what?
02:16 < mccann> of the component?
02:16 < ricky> Good, I didn't think of that ambiguity before
02:16 < mccann> the next 5 dropdowns? pointless
02:17 < ricky> Agreed
02:17 < mccann> initial state? wtf
02:17 < ricky> Most people don't care who it's assigned to or CCed to either
02:17 < mccann> and some weird flags boxes over to the right
02:17 < mccann> what is that
02:17 < ricky> And the flags are mostly of interest to triagers, maintainers and other fedora contributors
02:17 < mccann> for some admin i guess
02:18 < ricky> The time tracking is completely unused as far as I know
02:18 < mccann> i've never used them
02:18 < mccann> alias seems like it better added later
02:18 < mccann> if ever
02:18 < mccann> what is url for?
02:18 < mccann> i have no idea
02:18 < ricky> I think I'd prefer if all of the extra stuff were at the bottom of the page, maybe even below the submit button, or hidden behind some advanced options button
02:19 < mccann> what is whiteboard for? i have no idea
02:19 < ricky> So summary, description, and attachment are the only useful ones there at all
02:19 < mccann> Customer Facing ?
02:19 < ricky> Yeah
02:20 < mccann> and if i somehow skip summary it gives me a nasty error message
02:20 < mccann> but it doesn't tell me summary is required
02:20 < ricky> Do you think this kind of confusion also applies to the bug pages themselves (like https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1), or not so much?
02:20 < mccann> and those groups. i've never touched them
02:21 < mccann> not done here - one sec :)
02:21 < ricky> Heh, take your time, this is good stuff :-)
02:21 < mccann> and "Commit" ?!
02:21 < mccann> this isn't an insane asylum or is it?
02:21 < ricky> Yeah, that's is pretty bad
02:21 < ricky> **that
02:21 < mccann> and commit has the same "weight" / importance as "remember template"
02:22 < mccann> actually less
02:22 < mccann> since it is smaller and over to the left
02:22 < mccann> and the spacing on the page is just all wrong
02:22 < mccann> and commit is hidden down under the "heading" Add External Bug:
02:22 < ricky> Oh yeah.
02:23 < mccann> so again the entire workflow should be just (maybe) summary, and description and "Submit bug report"
02:23 < mccann> and that should all be one click from the home page
02:23 < mccann> and maybe add attachment if i have one
02:24 < mccann> or list component if i can tell
02:24 < mccann> and maybe even automatically look for similar bugs
02:24 < mccann> to prevent needless dups
02:25 -!- mchua_ [n=mchua(a)173-10-206-145-BusName-NorthGulf.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #fedora-websites
02:25 -!- mchua_ [n=mchua(a)173-10-206-145-BusName-NorthGulf.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
02:26 < mccann> if we had a better main page it could even show quick summary of what was filed or fixed today
02:26 < mccann> lots of cool stuff
02:26 < ricky> Ugh, I got dropped from wireless, sorry
02:27 < ricky> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi is a decent thing to compare against if you have an account there
02:27 < ricky> Still a bunch of steps, but at least clearly labeled (and mostly only the important ones)
02:28 < mccann> well gnome has a number of nice things in theirs
02:28 < mccann> but i think they are working on moving over to a new version now
02:28 < mccann> so it is on hold
02:28 < ricky> Do you know if it's GNOME patches to it, or if it's functionality we could get as well?
02:28 < mccann> both I think
02:28 < ricky> Ah
02:29 < mccann> i'll try to check on the update tomorrow
02:29 < mccann> anyway for the bug status page...
02:29 < ricky> :-)
02:29 < mccann> say https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514246 for example
02:29 < mccann> it is pretty bad too
02:29 < ricky> Yeah, it's like always looking at a half-filled form
02:30 < mccann> Conditional NAK?
02:30 < ricky> Heh, that I don't see :-)
02:30 < mccann> PM Score: ?
02:31 < mccann> oh this may be rhel things sneaking in for me
02:31 < ricky> Hehe
02:31 < mccann> but they shouldn't
02:31 < mccann> again the time reporting stuff
02:31 -!- onekopaka is now known as onekopaka_away
02:32 < mccann> anyway i'll ask around tomorrow about the gnome bugzilla move
02:32 < mccann> thanks for listening to my rants
02:32 < mccann> :)
02:32 < ricky> Mind if I post this entire conversation to fedora-websites-list?
02:32 < mccann> did I say anything too mean?
02:33 < ricky> Nah :-) Everythings, very true definitely
02:33 < mccann> ok sure then :)
02:33 < ricky> Cool, thanks - hopefully this will start up some brainstorming
02:33 < mccann> cool. again I'll check back with some info tomorrow hopefully
14 years, 8 months
Setting Up Red Hat Fedora Linux 3
by Tom Johnson
Sir,
I tried to use the other e-mail in the Fedora but I can't make anything work when setting up. I am a Amateur Radio Operator and I would basically like to use the Fedora System to work Amateurs all over the world. I was doing this on Microsoft but I just got sick and tired of the whole operation of Microsoft. This system is super fast and I would like to learn how to use it and I just can't seem to get it started. I put the system in the computer and I thought everything was going to work, but I can't extract anything from a download to get the software program to work. I am downloading Linux type programs so there wouldn't be any problem but I have hit a brick wall. Can you help me get this operation started so I can use the Fedora system? This operating system is the"Red Hat Fedora Linux 3". I hope to hear from you soon. Thank you very much and have a good day.
Thomas L. Johnson
803 Twp. Rd. 202
Bloomingdale, Ohio 43910
Phone:740-944-1005
Amateur Call: KB8FYG
14 years, 9 months
Please Help for queries
by Kishor Kshirsagar
Resp Sir
My Self Kishor Kshirsagar... I am from India , Maharashtra state . I just
passed out my engineering graduation but i want to make carrier in open
source systems and specially in operating system development .... but i
don't understand how to start for that ....i asked to same question to many
peoples but i got always same answer that , there is no good carrier in open
source organization ...
So i am confused what to do...
please help me if you can..
Regards
Kishor Kshirsagar
+919850216851
14 years, 9 months
