Wiki Migration

[Paulo Santos]

Hi everyone,

As you know, after the release of FC6, we had problems with the amount of
connections to our servers. This made the wiki unavailable as well as other
related problems.
With this concern, the Fedora Infrastructure Team, have been working in a
way to prevent this from happening again. Our first step, is the wiki
migration.
We are now ready to test the future wiki platform, and this is why i'm
sending this email.

URL: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki (MoinMoin 1.5.6)

Please track all problems under
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WikiMigration, edit that page
as you see fit, so that we can fix any problems that you guys may encounter.

Feel free to contact me if necessary.


Many thanks,
Paulo

[Karsten Wade]

A special request to all of your eyeballs:

We want to look for any differences in formatting for this new version.
You may be able to find some Moin Moin release notes that suggest what
to look for.

Already there is one difference that needs to be fixed in the styling
for the = Header Level One =.

Glezos -- Can we see how your CSS looks here?  Are things implemented
better or worse?  Anything else interesting we can be doing in this new
version?

The Wiki is now fairly large with a good number of pages being worked on
regularly.  Although we have guidelines at WikiEditing, there are many
styles used across the Wiki.  What little hacks are different now?  Do
all pages come out fine or can be easily fixed?

One task is finding common usages that are different in this new
version, so we can fix them all during actual content migration.

thx - Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[Arthur Pemberton]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, and please forgive my bluntness, but
the Fedora wiki search sucks - in that it is very much unlike what one
expects from a site search (or web search) is this a symptom of using
a wiki or what?

For example, the other day I was in the #fedora chat room, and someone
asked about network installation, so I headed over to
fedoraproject.org and did a text search for "network install" the
search results worked unclear enough that it didn't seem worth the
effort.

Peace

[John Babich]

Karsten:

Three questions:

I understand the need to prevent the website outage due to unusual
demand when FC6 was released. I support any and all efforts to improve
the infrastructure.

I also am very much committed to improving the "public face" of the
Fedora Project.

With that in mind, I am confused with the website migration back to
fedora.redhat.com.

I thought the direction was to move everything to fedoraproject.org. I
also thought that Plone was the preferred platform, at least for
static pages.

1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for testing?
2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
for drafts, etc.?

By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook" feature.

3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this facility?

Best Regards,

John Babich

[Paulo Santos]

Hi John,

I will reply to number 1.

1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for testing?
Yes. webtest.fedora.redhat.com, was the available domain name, that i could
use to deploy the 'testing' environment. Don't forget that
fedoraproject.orgis just an A record pointing to a server in Duke.
Whenever you go to http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki you are already
going through the architecture to where we will change the
fedoraproject.orgdomain to.

So currently you have:
end user > browser > fpserv

and in a near future:
end user > browser > Load balancer > proxy servers (with squid) > app (wiki)

So in conclusion, webtest.fedora.redhat.com is the actual server that will
support the wiki, but with a different domain name.

Feel free to ask, if you still have any doubts.
I'm currently also in #fedora-docs as paulobanon, so drop me an email or ask
on the channel :)


Paulo



On 12/5/06, John Babich <jmbabich(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Karsten:
>
>  Three questions:
>
>  I understand the need to prevent the website outage due to unusual
>  demand when FC6 was released. I support any and all efforts to improve
>  the infrastructure.
>
>  I also am very much committed to improving the "public face" of the
>  Fedora Project.
>
>  With that in mind, I am confused with the website migration back to
>  fedora.redhat.com.
>
>  I thought the direction was to move everything to fedoraproject.org. I
>  also thought that Plone was the preferred platform, at least for
>  static pages.
>
>  1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
>  testing?
>  2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
>  for drafts, etc.?
>
>  By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook" feature.
>
>  3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this
>  facility?
>
>  Best Regards,
>
>  John Babich
>
>  --
>  Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>

[Paulo Santos]

i got the channel name wrong... its #fedora-websites not #fedora-docs (i'm
also there though)

Paulo

On 12/5/06, Paulo Santos <paulo.banon(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi John,
>
>  I will reply to number 1.
>
>  1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
>  testing?
>  Yes. webtest.fedora.redhat.com , was the available domain name, that i
>  could use to deploy the 'testing' environment. Don't forget that
>  fedoraproject.org is just an A record pointing to a server in Duke.
>  Whenever you go to http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki you are already
>  going through the architecture to where we will change the
>  fedoraproject.org domain to.
>
>  So currently you have:
>  end user > browser > fpserv
>
>  and in a near future:
>  end user > browser > Load balancer > proxy servers (with squid) > app
>  (wiki)
>
>  So in conclusion, webtest.fedora.redhat.com is the actual server that will
>  support the wiki, but with a different domain name.
>
>  Feel free to ask, if you still have any doubts.
>  I'm currently also in #fedora-docs as paulobanon, so drop me an email or
>  ask on the channel :)
>
>
>  Paulo
>
>
>
>  On 12/5/06, John Babich <jmbabich(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > Karsten:
>  >
>  > Three questions:
>  >
>  > I understand the need to prevent the website outage due to unusual
>  > demand when FC6 was released. I support any and all efforts to improve
>  > the infrastructure.
>  >
>  > I also am very much committed to improving the "public face" of the
>  > Fedora Project.
>  >
>  > With that in mind, I am confused with the website migration back to
>  > fedora.redhat.com.
>  >
>  > I thought the direction was to move everything to fedoraproject.org. I
>  > also thought that Plone was the preferred platform, at least for
>  > static pages.
>  >
>  > 1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
>  > testing?
>  > 2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
>  > for drafts, etc.?
>  >
>  > By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook" feature.
>  >
>  > 3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this
>  > facility?
>  >
>  > Best Regards,
>  >
>  > John Babich
>  >
>  > --
>  > Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  > Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>  >
>
>

[John Babich]

Paulo:

Thanks for the explanation on question 1.

Load balancing sounds like the way to go. Of course, the physical
server is unimportant as long as DNS resolves the domain name,
fedoraproject.org, to the right server via the load balancer.
(Somewhat oversimplified explanation on my part).

John Babich

On 12/5/06, Paulo Santos <paulo.banon(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  i got the channel name wrong... its #fedora-websites not #fedora-docs
> (i'm
>  also there though)
>
>  Paulo
>
>
>  On 12/5/06, Paulo Santos < paulo.banon(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > Hi John,
>  >
>  > I will reply to number 1.
>  >
>  > 1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
>  testing?
>  > Yes. webtest.fedora.redhat.com , was the available domain name, that i
>  could use to deploy the 'testing' environment. Don't forget that
>  fedoraproject.org is just an A record pointing to a server in Duke.
>  > Whenever you go to http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki
>  you are already going through the architecture to where we will change the
>  fedoraproject.org domain to.
>  >
>  > So currently you have:
>  > end user > browser > fpserv
>  >
>  > and in a near future:
>  > end user > browser > Load balancer > proxy servers (with squid) > app
>  (wiki)
>  >
>  > So in conclusion, webtest.fedora.redhat.com is the actual server that will
>  support the wiki, but with a different domain name.
>  >
>  > Feel free to ask, if you still have any doubts.
>  > I'm currently also in #fedora-docs as paulobanon, so drop me an email or
>  ask on the channel :)
>  >
>  >
>  > Paulo
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On 12/5/06, John Babich < jmbabich(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > > Karsten:
>  > >
>  > > Three questions:
>  > >
>  > > I understand the need to prevent the website outage due to unusual
>  > > demand when FC6 was released. I support any and all efforts to improve
>  > > the infrastructure.
>  > >
>  > > I also am very much committed to improving the "public face" of the
>  > > Fedora Project.
>  > >
>  > > With that in mind, I am confused with the website migration back to
>  > > fedora.redhat.com .
>  > >
>  > > I thought the direction was to move everything to fedoraproject.org. I
>  > > also thought that Plone was the preferred platform, at least for
>  > > static pages.
>  > >
>  > > 1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
>  testing?
>  > > 2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
>  > > for drafts, etc.?
>  > >
>  > > By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook" feature.
>  > >
>  > > 3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this
>  facility?
>  > >
>  > > Best Regards,
>  > >
>  > > John Babich
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  > > Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  > >
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>
>
>  --
>  Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>
>
>

[Karsten Wade]

On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 14:06 +0300, John Babich wrote:

>  1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
> testing? 
Paul explained this fine; it's just a test/sandbox environment.  We are
definitely leaving fedora.redhat.com behind. :)

>  2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
>  for drafts, etc.? 
This is the way the Documentation Project is going to use Wiki + CMS.
However, I fully expect the rest of the project to use the Wiki as a
primary location for project-specific documentation, e.g. Packaging/,
SELinux/, Extras/, etc.

However, once we build the tools to easily publish to Plone, we'll see
if some folks want to use that. :)

>  By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook"
> feature.
>  
>  3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this facility? 
What you see in this Moin Moin instance, ver. 1.5.6, is the code
*before* the Google Summer of Code fixes this year.  It actually works
well for most cases, but has some bugs and unsupported syntax.  The code
that was worked on over this GSoC fixed the bugs and did a number of
syntax mappings that we devised.  So, for example, the markup in
WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms is rendered in to the XML that we
expect it to.

We are working with the same FI/Websites team to get upgraded to 1.6
when it is released, as well as working on getting the GSoC code into
that main trunk.  In the meantime, the Render as DocBook in 1.5.6 works
good enough for us to use for one-time conversions out of the Wiki, etc.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[Paulo Santos]

Hi all,

Since i'm noticing that some people are already editing and ading pages to
the 'testing' wiki, i just want to give the following warning:

This is a testing environment with the original fedoraproject.org data from
8th of November 2006. Any definite aditions, should still be going under the
current wiki, since i will move that data when we all determine that the new
wiki is ready for prime time.
Also you might have noticed that the RecentChanges are almost empty. Basicly
the RecentChanges are obtained from parsing the event.log of the wiki. And
that log was already 5GB, so i decided to drop that on this testing
environment.

Karsten:
If you guys want to test the new CSS, just let me know where it is and i'll
add a similar Kindofblue template, and replace the appropriate stylesheets
for your testing.


Once again, thanks all
Paulo

On 12/5/06, Karsten Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 14:06 +0300, John Babich wrote:
>
>  > 1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com a temporary situation for
>  testing?
>
>  Paul explained this fine; it's just a test/sandbox environment.  We are
>  definitely leaving fedora.redhat.com behind. :)
>
>  > 2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
>  > for drafts, etc.?
>
>  This is the way the Documentation Project is going to use Wiki + CMS.
>  However, I fully expect the rest of the project to use the Wiki as a
>  primary location for project-specific documentation, e.g. Packaging/,
>  SELinux/, Extras/, etc.
>
>  However, once we build the tools to easily publish to Plone, we'll see
>  if some folks want to use that. :)
>
>  > By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook" feature.
>  >
>  > 3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this
>  facility?
>
>  What you see in this Moin Moin instance, ver. 1.5.6, is the code
>  *before* the Google Summer of Code fixes this year.  It actually works
>  well for most cases, but has some bugs and unsupported syntax.  The code
>  that was worked on over this GSoC fixed the bugs and did a number of
>  syntax mappings that we devised.  So, for example, the markup in
>  WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms is rendered in to the XML that we
>  expect it to.
>
>  We are working with the same FI/Websites team to get upgraded to 1.6
>  when it is released, as well as working on getting the GSoC code into
>  that main trunk.  In the meantime, the Render as DocBook in 1.5.6 works
>  good enough for us to use for one-time conversions out of the Wiki, etc.
>
>  - Karsten
>  --
>  Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project
>  Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
>     quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
>  ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
>
>  --
>  Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>
>
>
>

[Rahul Sundaram]

Paulo Santos wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  
>  Since i'm noticing that some people are already editing and ading pages 
>  to the 'testing' wiki, i just want to give the following warning:
>  
>  This is a testing environment with the original fedoraproject.org 
>  <http://fedoraproject.org> data from 8th of November 2006. Any definite 
>  aditions, should still be going under the current wiki, since i will 
>  move that data when we all determine that the new wiki is ready for 
>  prime time.
>  Also you might have noticed that the RecentChanges are almost empty. 
>  Basicly the RecentChanges are obtained from parsing the event.log of the 
>  wiki. And that log was already 5GB, so i decided to drop that on this 
>  testing environment.
>  
>  Karsten:
>  If you guys want to test the new CSS, just let me know where it is and 
>  i'll add a similar Kindofblue template, and replace the appropriate 
>  stylesheets for your testing.
>   
The CSS is here: http://dimitris.glezos.com/box/foss/fedora/custom.css. 
I have been using it for a few days and there are some minor rendering 
glitches but those can be fixed easily. Good improvement overall.

Rahul

[Thomas Chung]

On 12/6/06, Paulo Santos <paulo.banon(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi all,
>
>  Since i'm noticing that some people are already editing and ading pages to
>  the 'testing' wiki, i just want to give the following warning:
>
>  This is a testing environment with the original fedoraproject.org data from
>  8th of November 2006. Any definite aditions, should still be going under the
>  current wiki, since i will move that data when we all determine that the new
>  wiki is ready for prime time.
>  Also you might have noticed that the RecentChanges are almost empty. Basicly
>  the RecentChanges are obtained from parsing the event.log of the wiki. And
>  that log was already 5GB, so i decided to drop that on this testing
>  environment.
>
>  Karsten:
>  If you guys want to test the new CSS, just let me know where it is and i'll
>  add a similar Kindofblue template, and replace the appropriate stylesheets
>  for your testing.
>
>
>  Once again, thanks all
>  Paulo 
Understood.
I've added a few issues at WikiMigration[1] last night.
I also tested with new custom CSS[2] which improves the look but it
didn't fix issues I reported.
Regards,

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WikiMigration
[2] http://dimitris.glezos.com/box/foss/fedora/custom.css
-- 
Thomas Chung
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung

[Dimitris Glezos]

O/H Paulo Santos έγραψε:
>  This is a testing environment with the original fedoraproject.org
>  <http://fedoraproject.org> data from 8th of November 2006. [...] 
Hi Paulo,

first of all, great job with the upgrade. Here are some comments:

 1. Can we enable the definition syntax (term :: definition)? It's an important
syntax in HTML and used very often throughout the wiki.

 2. We could use the CardMacro feature. But this might need some discussion.

 3. I've noticed that during a page editing the "Preview" buttons are only
on
top of the editbox. Is there a switch to enable their presence below the box
too, since there is the place 99% of the users will expect it to be?

 4. BTW, during a page edit subimt, the following error occured:

    Status of sending notification mails:
    [en] ThomasChung, ThorstenLeemhuis, RahulSundaram, PatrickBarnes:
{u&#39;tchung(a)fedoraproject.org&#39;: (554, ': Recipient address rejected: Relay
access
denied'), u&#39;nman64(a)fedoraproject.org&#39;: (554, ': Recipient address
rejected:
Relay access denied'), u&#39;sundaram(a)redhat.com&#39;: (554, ': Recipient address
rejected: Relay access denied'), u&#39;fedora(a)leemhuis.info&#39;: (554, ':
Recipient
address rejected: Relay access denied')}

>  Karsten:
>  If you guys want to test the new CSS, just let me know where it is and
>  i'll add a similar Kindofblue template, and replace the appropriate
>  stylesheets for your testing. 
The CSS additions that work on top of the current theme; you just need to import
this CSS as well. Here is the current version:

  http://dimitris.glezos.com/box/foss/fedora/custom.css

Some further additions are planned in the near future. I would like to work more
on the h1, probably the tables, create some custom stuff that people could use
just by adding the related CSS "class".

Paulo, thanks for the notices, explanations and all.

-d


>  Once again, thanks all
>  Paulo
>  
>  On 12/5/06, *Karsten Wade* <kwade(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>  wrote:
>  
>      On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 14:06 +0300, John Babich wrote:
>  
>      > 1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com
>      <http://fedora.redhat.com> a temporary situation for testing?
>  
>      Paul explained this fine; it's just a test/sandbox environment.  We are
>      definitely leaving fedora.redhat.com <http://fedora.redhat.com>
>      behind. :)
>  
>      > 2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin wiki
>      > for drafts, etc.?
>  
>      This is the way the Documentation Project is going to use Wiki + CMS.
>      However, I fully expect the rest of the project to use the Wiki as a
>      primary location for project-specific documentation, e.g. Packaging/,
>      SELinux/, Extras/, etc.
>  
>      However, once we build the tools to easily publish to Plone, we'll see
>      if some folks want to use that. :)
>  
>      > By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook" feature.
>      >
>      > 3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this
>      facility?
>  
>      What you see in this Moin Moin instance, ver. 1.5.6, is the code
>      *before* the Google Summer of Code fixes this year.  It actually works
>      well for most cases, but has some bugs and unsupported syntax.  The code
>      that was worked on over this GSoC fixed the bugs and did a number of
>      syntax mappings that we devised.  So, for example, the markup in
>      WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms is rendered in to the XML that we
>      expect it to.
>  
>      We are working with the same FI/Websites team to get upgraded to 1.6
>      when it is released, as well as working on getting the GSoC code into
>      that main trunk.  In the meantime, the Render as DocBook in 1.5.6 works
>      good enough for us to use for one-time conversions out of the Wiki,
>      etc.
>  
>      - Karsten
>      --
>      Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project
>      Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.    
>      |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
>      <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject>
>         quaid.108.redhat.com <http://quaid.108.redhat.com>          
>      |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
>      ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>  
>  
>      --
>      Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>      Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>      <https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list>
>  
>  
>  
>   
-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Paulo Santos]

Hi Dimitri,

First of all thanks for the feedback.
Some explanations below...

On 12/8/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris(a)glezos.com&gt; wrote:
>  O/H Paulo Santos έγραψε:
>  > This is a testing environment with the original fedoraproject.org
>  > <http://fedoraproject.org> data from 8th of November 2006. [...]
>
>  Hi Paulo,
>
>  first of all, great job with the upgrade. Here are some comments:
>
>  1. Can we enable the definition syntax (term :: definition)? It's an
>  important
>  syntax in HTML and used very often throughout the wiki. 

Cool, let me check how to enable this and i'll do it. (probably only monday
though)

2. We could use the CardMacro feature. But this might need some discussion.


I liked what i saw with CardMacro, but thats just me. You guys are the ones
that gonna use it more often, so please discuss it and let me know what you
need from my side. I'm here to help you all :)

3. I've noticed that during a page editing the "Preview" buttons are only
on
>  top of the editbox. Is there a switch to enable their presence below
> the
>  box
>  too, since there is the place 99% of the users will expect it to be? 

About the preview buttons, i have no idea if this is supposed to be like
this or not. I'll drop some questions to the guys at #moin, and then i'll
give you an answer on this subject.

4. BTW, during a page edit subimt, the following error occured:
>      Status of sending notification mails:
>      [en] ThomasChung, ThorstenLeemhuis, RahulSundaram, PatrickBarnes:
>  {u&#39;tchung(a)fedoraproject.org&#39;: (554, ': Recipient address rejected: Relay
>  access
>  denied'), u&#39;nman64(a)fedoraproject.org&#39;: (554, ': Recipient address
>  rejected:
>  Relay access denied'), u&#39;sundaram(a)redhat.com&#39;: (554, ': Recipient
> address
>  rejected: Relay access denied'), u&#39;fedora(a)leemhuis.info&#39;: (554, ':
>  Recipient
>  address rejected: Relay access denied')} 

Right now this is supposed to be like this. Why? simple answer. I have the
wiki setup to use the same smtp as in fp.o (duke). Our firewalls dont allow
a straight connection to fpserv.fp.o:25 which means no notifications mails.
I dont want to setup this correctly, so that everyone on that mailing list
don't keep receiving emails about something still on testing. I'm not saying
we shouldn't testing this, just stating that i would prefer not to do it
right now. Why not leave this to the last few testings...

>  Karsten:
>  > If you guys want to test the new CSS, just let me know where it is and
>  > i'll add a similar Kindofblue template, and replace the appropriate
>  > stylesheets for your testing.
>
>  The CSS additions that work on top of the current theme; you just need to
>  import
>  this CSS as well. Here is the current version:
>
>    http://dimitris.glezos.com/box/foss/fedora/custom.css
>
>  Some further additions are planned in the near future. I would like to
>  work more
>  on the h1, probably the tables, create some custom stuff that people could
>  use
>  just by adding the related CSS "class". 

Let's do it like this. I'll 'create' a theme called
'newKindofblue' with the
new CSS, whenever you want it updated just let me know with the url of the
new CSS and i'll update this new theme. You would like this theme to be
enforced on the testing wiki ?!

Paulo, thanks for the notices, explanations and all.


My pleasure :)

-d



Paulo

>  Once again, thanks all
>  > Paulo
>  >
>  > On 12/5/06, *Karsten Wade* <kwade(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>  > wrote:
>  >
>  >     On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 14:06 +0300, John Babich wrote:
>  >
>  >     > 1. Is the move back to fedora.redhat.com
>  >     <http://fedora.redhat.com> a temporary situation for testing?
>  >
>  >     Paul explained this fine; it's just a test/sandbox environment.  We
>  are
>  >     definitely leaving fedora.redhat.com <http://fedora.redhat.com>
>  >     behind. :)
>  >
>  >     > 2. Are we still going with Plone for static pages and MoinMoin
>  wiki
>  >     > for drafts, etc.?
>  >
>  >     This is the way the Documentation Project is going to use Wiki +
>  CMS.
>  >     However, I fully expect the rest of the project to use the Wiki as a
>  >     primary location for project-specific documentation, e.g.
>  Packaging/,
>  >     SELinux/, Extras/, etc.
>  >
>  >     However, once we build the tools to easily publish to Plone, we'll
>  see
>  >     if some folks want to use that. :)
>  >
>  >     > By the way, I'm intrigued by the "Render as Docbook"
> feature.
>  >     >
>  >     > 3. Is there a way to generate our valid DocBook XML code with this
>  >     facility?
>  >
>  >     What you see in this Moin Moin instance, ver. 1.5.6, is the code
>  >     *before* the Google Summer of Code fixes this year.  It actually
>  works
>  >     well for most cases, but has some bugs and unsupported syntax.  The
>  code
>  >     that was worked on over this GSoC fixed the bugs and did a number of
>  >     syntax mappings that we devised.  So, for example, the markup in
>  >     WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms is rendered in to the XML that
>  we
>  >     expect it to.
>  >
>  >     We are working with the same FI/Websites team to get upgraded to 1.6
>  >     when it is released, as well as working on getting the GSoC code
>  into
>  >     that main trunk.  In the meantime, the Render as DocBook in 1.5.6works
>  >     good enough for us to use for one-time conversions out of the Wiki,
>  >     etc.
>  >
>  >     - Karsten
>  >     --
>  >     Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project
>  >     Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.
>  >     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
>  >     <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject>
>  >        quaid.108.redhat.com <http://quaid.108.redhat.com>
>  >     |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
>  >     //////////////////////////////////
>  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>  >
>  >
>  >     --
>  >     Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  >     Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com <mailto:
>  Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  >     https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>  >     <https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>  --
>  Dimitris Glezos
>  Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
>  http://dimitris.glezos.com/
>
>  "He who gives up functionality for ease of use
>  loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
>  --
>
>
>  --
>  Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>

[Dimitris Glezos]

O/H Paulo Santos έγραψε:
>  I liked what i saw with CardMacro, but thats just me. You guys are
> the
>  ones that gonna use it more often, so please discuss it and let me know
>  what you need from my side. I'm here to help you all :) 
Well, to be honest, I'm not sure it will simplify things. But it's probably
worth the try. For example, instead of having to code wiki tables for everything
(announcements, table of contents, foo) we can put them in templates.

Of course, on the other hand, if we over-do it then things are moving away from
the KISS princile (Keep it simple, stupid!). I'd hope we use them wisely; with a
sparing hand.

>  [...]
>  Let's do it like this. I'll 'create' a theme called
> 'newKindofblue' with
>  the new CSS, whenever you want it updated just let me know with the url
>  of the new CSS and i'll update this new theme. You would like this theme
>  to be enforced on the testing wiki ?! 
If you think it is necessary to create a new theme, OK. There is the option just
to append the `custom.css` after the other CSS's.

We'd want this CSS to be enforced on the production wiki, so enforcing it on the
testing wiki would be great, so that we get it tested as much as possible.

Thanks again.

-d


-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Paulo Santos]

Dimitris,

The new CSS has been deployed and enforced. One thing i've noticed is that
there are (i think) some strange borders in some places. The first page have
a few, so once you see it you'll understand what i meen.

Regarding the WikiMigration page, i've added a new column on the table. This
way you guys can see what's the status of things.


Paulo


On 12/10/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris(a)glezos.com&gt; wrote:
>  O/H Paulo Santos έγραψε:
>  > I liked what i saw with CardMacro, but thats just me. You guys are the
>  > ones that gonna use it more often, so please discuss it and let me know
>  > what you need from my side. I'm here to help you all :)
>
>  Well, to be honest, I'm not sure it will simplify things. But it's
>  probably
>  worth the try. For example, instead of having to code wiki tables for
>  everything
>  (announcements, table of contents, foo) we can put them in templates.
>
>  Of course, on the other hand, if we over-do it then things are moving away
>  from
>  the KISS princile (Keep it simple, stupid!). I'd hope we use them wisely;
>  with a
>  sparing hand.
>
>  > [...]
>  > Let's do it like this. I'll 'create' a theme called
> 'newKindofblue' with
>  > the new CSS, whenever you want it updated just let me know with the url
>  > of the new CSS and i'll update this new theme. You would like this theme
>  > to be enforced on the testing wiki ?!
>
>  If you think it is necessary to create a new theme, OK. There is the
>  option just
>  to append the `custom.css` after the other CSS's.
>
>  We'd want this CSS to be enforced on the production wiki, so enforcing it
>  on the
>  testing wiki would be great, so that we get it tested as much as possible.
>
>  Thanks again.
>
>  -d
>
>
>  --
>  Dimitris Glezos
>  Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
>  http://dimitris.glezos.com/
>
>  "He who gives up functionality for ease of use
>  loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
>  --
>
>

[Rahul Sundaram]

Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>  Sorry if this is a bit off topic, and please forgive my bluntness,
> but
>  the Fedora wiki search sucks - in that it is very much unlike what one
>  expects from a site search (or web search) is this a symptom of using
>  a wiki or what? 
Yes, a wiki search works differently. It is not google.

>  
>  For example, the other day I was in the #fedora chat room, and someone
>  asked about network installation, so I headed over to
>  fedoraproject.org and did a text search for "network install" the
>  search results worked unclear enough that it didn't seem worth the
>  effort. 
It search the two words independently by default. Anyway the network 
installation is documented in the installation guide at 
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs and not the wiki.

Rahul

Ps: Please start a new thread for different topics.

[Dimitris Glezos]

O/H Karsten Wade έγραψε:
>  A special request to all of your eyeballs:
>
>  We want to look for any differences in formatting for this new version.
>  You may be able to find some Moin Moin release notes that suggest what
>  to look for. 
Took a quick look, probably a closer one later on.

>  Already there is one difference that needs to be fixed in the
> styling
>  for the = Header Level One =. 
I'm glad to see that in the new wiki `= H1 =` produces `<h1>`, like it should.

This is the correct behaviour, because each webpage should contain at least one
level-one heading which describes the page. In the case of the wiki, this is
even more relevant becauseeach page is about one thing.

I understand that this might require some coding (the Wiki conversion tools
might need tweaking?), editing of pages etc. But this is important and besides,
most of our webpages do start with an =h1= and that should be rendered as <h1>.

>  Glezos -- Can we see how your CSS looks here?  Are things
> implemented
>  better or worse?  Anything else interesting we can be doing in this new
>  version? 
Yup, the CSS [1] seems to work. I'll have to enhance a bit the h1, due to it's
more prominent role with the new wiki. :)

  [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning

TableOfContents is now surrounded by a <div>. This gives us the power to
control it's appearance through CSS. Cool.

>  The Wiki is now fairly large with a good number of pages being worked
> on
>  regularly.  Although we have guidelines at WikiEditing, there are many
>  styles used across the Wiki.  What little hacks are different now?  Do
>  all pages come out fine or can be easily fixed? 
If we do enable my CSS bits, then we could encourage people (probably by
polishing the WikiEditing pages) to increase the quality of the wiki pages. For
example by explaining the benefits of structure (h3's always after h2's) etc.

If we want to increase the wiki's consistency, we could talk about enabling the
CardMacro feature of moin [2]. It will allow us to reuse pages as "templates",
just like wikipedia does.

  [2]: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/macro/CardMacro

This will help us decrease to a minimum the number of `{{{!html` and complex
table structures that appear in lots of pages. What do you guys think?


-d




-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Rahul Sundaram]

Dimitris Glezos wrote:

>  
>  If we want to increase the wiki's consistency, we could talk about enabling the
>  CardMacro feature of moin [2]. It will allow us to reuse pages as "templates",
>  just like wikipedia does.
>  
>    [2]: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/macro/CardMacro
>  
>  This will help us decrease to a minimum the number of `{{{!html` and complex
>  table structures that appear in lots of pages. What do you guys think? 
I havent looked at how exactly that works but templating sounds good.

Rahul

[Paulo Santos]

Indeed it does.
By the way, if you guys know of any feature that Moin1.5.6 has, but its not
active  and would be helpfull, just let me know to change the config.

Paulo

On 12/5/06, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Dimitris Glezos wrote:
>
>  >
>  > If we want to increase the wiki's consistency, we could talk about
>  enabling the
>  > CardMacro feature of moin [2]. It will allow us to reuse pages as
>  "templates",
>  > just like wikipedia does.
>  >
>  >   [2]: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/macro/CardMacro
>  >
>  > This will help us decrease to a minimum the number of `{{{!html` and
>  complex
>  > table structures that appear in lots of pages. What do you guys think?
>
>  I havent looked at how exactly that works but templating sounds good.
>
>  Rahul
>
>  --
>  Fedora-websites-list mailing list
>  Fedora-websites-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
>