17:00 < ricky> #startmeeting Fedora Websites
17:00 < onekopaka> k
17:00 < zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jul 31 17:00:05 2009 UTC. The chair is ricky.
Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
17:00 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: (Meeting topic: Fedora
17:00 < ricky> #topic Who's here?
17:00 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Who's here? (Meeting topic:
17:00 * nb
17:00 * stickster
17:00 * onekopaka
17:00 * ricky
17:00 -!- mizmo [n=duffy@nat/redhat/x-xjvducmcqyezityp] has quit "Sláinte
17:00 * hiemanshu is here
17:00 < ricky> ianweller_away, mchua, any-interested-advisory-board-people: ping
17:01 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: nb ?
17:01 < onekopaka> ricky: ianweller_away sent mail to the list saying he's
17:01 < ricky> onekopaka: Oh, which list
17:01 < onekopaka> ricky: mizmo is also not here (hence her quiting the irc room)
17:01 < onekopaka> ricky: f-w-l
17:01 * hiemanshu dint get any
17:02 < ricky> All right then.
17:02 < ricky> #topic get-fedora redesign
17:02 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: get-fedora redesign (Meeting
topic: Fedora Websites)
17:02 < ricky> #link
stickster's email about that
17:02 * hiemanshu doesnt like what mizmo did to the mockup
17:02 < onekopaka> #link
17:03 < ricky> So mizmo posted a unfinished mockup today - I think we should hold
back the comments until it's actually done, since it could still be changing a lot as
she works on it
17:03 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: that mockup in my idea is _BAD_
17:03 < hiemanshu> ricky: where are the other options? x86_64
17:03 < stickster> Critiques of in-progress works can be helpful
17:03 < hiemanshu> mainly thats what we spoke of
17:03 < stickster> hiemanshu: Can you be a bit more specific please?
17:03 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: I know, I figured that you would say that.
17:04 < ricky> stickster: Well, I'm saying this based on what mizmo said last
meeting about not wanting to post her unfinished mockup
17:04 < stickster> ricky: OK, understandable
17:04 < hiemanshu> stickster: the main reason we wanted a new look because we wanted
people to be able to find pages easy
17:04 < stickster> I think the thing to remember about this design is that it's
going to be in accordance with the requirements that are being developed on FAB
17:04 < ricky> So did everybody see the stickster's email?
17:05 < stickster> Board meeting notes from yesterday are also good reading
17:05 * onekopaka looks at taht now.
17:05 < hiemanshu> ricky: not really, will read it after the meeting
17:05 < onekopaka> that*
17:05 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Board_meeting_2009-07-30
17:05 < ricky> Basically, there was some disagreement about the target audience
requirements for the page in the past, which led to the page being messy with our attempts
to please everybody
17:05 < onekopaka> links = pain when using irssi
17:05 -!- caillon [n=caillon(a)c-98-248-36-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined
17:06 < ricky> So the board has made the call of exactly who this page will be
targetted at, so that there will be no question about those requirements
17:06 < stickster> There's a thread on FAB about this now, as a matter of fact.
17:06 < hiemanshu> ricky: is there a meeting log?
17:06 < ricky> Of course, how that gets implemented and for example, how the page
targetted at people that know what they want is presented is still up to us
17:07 < ricky> hiemanshu: It wasn't an IRC meeting, so there's no log, but
there are minutes posted on fedora-advisory-board
17:07 < onekopaka> ricky: a phone meeting?
17:07 < ricky> #link
17:07 < hiemanshu> ricky: hmmm, i wanted to read it out so i can have a proper idea
what people really think
17:08 < ricky> hiemanshu: The summary of what a lot of people think is that the
original design of the get-fedora page got derailed by trying to please everybody
17:08 * hiemanshu agrees
17:08 < onekopaka> especially with KDE.
17:08 < stickster> ricky: And in addition, we don't have a good enough
presentation for the many custom spins that are done every cycle.
17:08 < ricky> For example the random inconsistent buttons on the left side that
links to different arches/desktop environments
17:09 < ricky> Ah, yes - one big part that I left out is a redesign of
17:09 < hiemanshu> ricky: a cleaner look like what other Distros have (Gentoo &
Debian) would be better
17:09 < stickster> The Board wants two redesigns to happen. One will be a clear
route to a single default spin that is the landing place for people who are new to Fedora
or Linux in general.
17:09 < stickster> The second is a better showcase for all spins regardless of
17:09 < ricky> hiemanshu: Heh, I've looked at Debian's in the past, and
unless they've changed, I don't want our download experience to be like that :-)
17:09 < onekopaka> DEBIAN!!
17:10 < ricky> So there's get-fedora and spins.fedoraproject.org
17:10 < onekopaka> debian's is bad.
17:10 < hiemanshu> ricky: well we shows the archs and show options like the
17:10 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: no it doesn't.
17:10 < ricky> The requirements for get-fedora are basically to be friendly to the
types of people listed in stickster's email
17:10 < stickster> Design has to be informed by knowing whom a page is intended to
17:10 < hiemanshu> ricky: well most people love it NEAT and CLEAN
17:10 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: http://www.debian.org/distrib/
17:10 < stickster> By defining the audience it will be easier to produce an
17:11 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: says nothing about archs, KDE, Xfce, or anything like
17:11 < ricky> The requirement for spins.fedoraproject.org
is that it targets people
who basically knows what a spin is and why they'd want to use one - does that sound
17:11 < caillon> yes
17:11 < stickster> ricky: We still have to bring more detail to that, but yes,
that's the general idea
17:11 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i mean by the ARCHs option, on the DVD FTP page
17:11 < ricky> Oh cool, thanks for making this, caillon
17:11 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: that's an FTP directory listing, which we have
17:12 < ricky> One interesting part of spins.fedoraproject.org
is that we want to
allow the spins creators to be able to modify descriptions, etc. of their own spin's
pages (while sticking to the websites schedule of course)
17:12 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: havent seen it much
17:13 < ricky> So we'd like to have the spins.fp.o redesign ready for F12
17:13 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: you just go to download.fedoraproject.org..
17:13 * hiemanshu will try a mockup
17:13 < ricky> It might not be 100% complete in terms of the process for spins
creators to enter their info, but I'd like it to be complete from the user-facing
17:14 < hiemanshu> ricky: for Spin creators i have an idea though
17:14 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: you said before that you can't do a mockup to save
17:14 < stickster> ricky: I think we'd definitely be able to accommodate custom
content even at the outset -- although it might be a more centralized process of getting
that onto the page
17:14 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i said i cant, but i have been learning GIMP lately
17:14 < stickster> Later we might try for more decentralized administration
17:14 < ricky> stickster: Yeah, at worst, the process would be getting everybody
into the web group and having them commit directly to fedora-web.git (while being aware of
string freeze dates, etc.0
17:15 < stickster> ricky: Right.
17:15 < hiemanshu> ricky: but you can make custom gits as well
17:15 < ricky> For F12, this will probably be done as something in the style of what
we have in the git repo
17:15 < hiemanshu> ricky: its might be a little messy but secure
17:16 < ricky> For F13 and beyond, we could look at whether something like zikula
would fulfill our needs of being easy to edit/translate by spins creators better
17:16 < onekopaka> hmm.
17:16 < stickster> Anyway, I think the main points to understand from the Websites
team perspective are: 1. The requirements will be developed openly by the Board on the FAB
list. 2. The requirements will form the basis for the designs the Board will consider and
approve. 3. We are sincerely trying for a F12 rollout if possible.
17:16 < stickster> and
17:17 < stickster> 4. The plan is that the Websites team will serve as the
implementation point, as is the case currently.
17:17 < onekopaka> mmkay.
17:18 * hiemanshu is always ready to help
17:18 < ricky> stickster: implementation = design + HTML/CSS/etc. for fitting the
goals set by the board, right?
17:18 < caillon> though the board has a set of general requirements already, and i
think paul's post covers that as do the minutes. we're looking for questions from
e.g. the websites team to help fill in the gaps
17:19 < ricky> OK, so just to get some tasks out there:
17:19 < hiemanshu> caillon: best way to contact he board?
17:19 < caillon> fedora-advisory-board@
17:19 < stickster> The Board has specifically asked mizmo and ricky to lead,
respectively, the visual design and the code generation/maintenance
17:19 < stickster> ricky: ^ Is that clear enough?
17:19 < ricky> #action subscribe to fedora-advisory-board and contribute to the
discussion about the target audience of get-fedora and spins.fp.o
17:19 < ricky> stickster: Yup, thanks
17:20 < ricky> #link https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board
is the subscription page
17:20 < stickster> ricky: Thanks
17:21 * hiemanshu just subscribed
17:21 < ricky> The idea is for the discussions to take place for a week or two
there, before stuff is finalized, and we can start looking at how well each mockup
satisifies those goals
17:21 < ricky> So does anybody from the board/websites have any questions/comments
17:22 < caillon> hiemanshu, also, worth noting is there is a public IRC board
meeting next thursday, Q&A are welcome there
17:22 < onekopaka> #info Public IRC FAB meeting next thursday, Q&A welcome
17:22 < ricky> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/IRC
17:22 < hiemanshu> caillon: i am not here next thursday, have an operation on
wednesday so i will not be able to make it
17:23 < ricky> hiemanshu: Good luck, hope you get will soon :-)
17:23 < hiemanshu> ricky: do we have many mockups ready for the board to choose or
take one and polish it?
17:23 < ricky> **well
17:23 < hiemanshu> ricky: thank you :)
17:23 < ricky> hiemanshu: I know mizmo has some mockups for get-fedora and
spins.fp.o that she might clean up to make sure they meet the new requirements
17:23 < ricky> Everybody's welcome to join in with the mockups of course
17:24 < hiemanshu> ricky: i could try one
17:24 < stickster> I'll find those spins mockups, hang on
17:24 * hiemanshu waits
17:25 < stickster> Well, these are older ones
17:25 < stickster> I think they were based on the idea of including a spin generator
on the site. We are deliberately *not* including that in the scope of this redesign. It
could be added later.
17:25 < hiemanshu> stickster: we could take THOSE and polish them to the new needs
17:26 < stickster>
17:26 < stickster>
17:26 < stickster> I think those were in the originally designed group of mockups
17:27 * ricky likes the idea of a visual explanation of what a spin is :-)
17:27 * hiemanshu nods
17:27 < stickster> The first is more of a central site, a portal which is nicer than
a big FTP list of .iso files
17:27 -!- caillon [n=caillon(a)c-98-248-36-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit Read error: 60
(Operation timed out)
17:27 * hiemanshu hates the Tracker idea though
17:27 < stickster> The second is a per-spin page, where each spin owner/SIG could
describe how awesome its spin is.
17:27 < ricky> As a side note, there's a spin that already has its own page
based on another design: http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/
17:28 < ricky> Anyway, just dumping a bunch of previous work out here that design
people can hopefully draw some good ideas from :-)
17:28 < ricky> For example, one question is - how much space for information, etc.
should be given to each spin?
17:29 < hiemanshu> ricky: could we have a web & design joint meeting?
17:29 < hiemanshu> Since they are both closely related and we would know more people
who can help us
17:29 < ricky> Sure, although mizmo is the main design person that has been doing
most of the web mockups :-)
17:29 < stickster> ricky: I think those details are well worth parsing out with the
various designers. Details about how the visual design can best achieve the requirements.
17:29 < ricky> We can talk to them on IRC in #fedora-design any time though - not
sure how many of the active people on the mailing list are on IRC though
17:30 < stickster> ricky: There are a couple options; one is to simply have
discussions happen on the fedora-websites-list. In other words, Websites is the focal
point for involved people bringing different skill sets in.
17:30 < hiemanshu> ricky: i said meeting for that reason, so people know about it
and take the effort to attend in
17:31 < hiemanshu> it**
17:31 < ricky> stickster: That's kind of what I envisioned in the cross-team
effort that I think websites is :-)
17:31 < stickster> ricky: I'm seeing that we're a half-hour in -- so if you
have other business to cover don't feel like you have to hold this topic open for my
and caillon's sake, although we're happy to stay as long as you require
17:31 < stickster> ricky: I was throwing you a bone there, see?
17:31 < ricky> Hehe :-)
17:32 < ricky> OK, so is everybody good on this then?
17:32 < hiemanshu> stickster: dont spoil the little boy :)
17:32 < hiemanshu> ricky: yup
17:32 < onekopaka> ricky: yep
17:32 < ricky> Cool
17:32 < ricky> #topic Tasks
17:32 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Tasks (Meeting topic: Fedora
17:32 < ricky> One tiny little update with my talk with docs
17:33 < ricky> I just recently found out about
17:33 < ricky> I think if that got translated into a lot of languages like the
installation guide, it might be something better to point to from get-fedora
17:33 < ricky> #link
17:33 * nb would like to proceed to blogs asap.... i must be leaving soon
17:33 < ricky> That has Live CD install instructions (which is what we're
pushing as the default way of installation)
17:34 < ricky> And screenshots, which I like :-)
17:34 < ricky> OK, nb - do you want to talk about blogs?
17:34 < hiemanshu> ricky: i heard a person complain about no live cd install guide
17:34 < nb> ricky, sure
17:34 * nb does not have a whole lot to report, we are deployed to production, FAS auth
is working, thanks to sijis
17:34 < nb> we are working on making SSL work
17:35 < nb> the only easy solution I can think of is make value1/2 listen on port
443 for SSL
17:35 < hiemanshu> nb: pretty much same as last time we spoke?
17:35 < nb> and have the proxy connect to it using SSL
17:35 < ricky> And that's an idea that we're not crazy about in
17:35 * onekopaka still doesn't know what to do about that HAproxy-side
17:35 < nb> it detects the connection is not ssl, and so it starts a redirect loop
because it is trying to redirect to https://blogs
17:35 < nb> ricky, yeah
17:35 < ricky> My suggestion would be to talk to other wordpress sysadmins
17:36 < ricky> Either that, or dive into the code, and figure out how to fake
17:36 < ricky> Well, preferably the first one first, since they might have an answer
to the second :-)
17:36 < hiemanshu> ricky: from being a wordpress admin for quite long, you cannot
fake anything until it supports it
17:36 < onekopaka> I did submit something to Barry's WP contact page.
17:36 < nb> ricky, i will work on one or both of those ideas, i meant to last week
but was otherwise occupied. I was elected last week as President of CAcert so I've
been kind of busy
17:36 < nb> onekopaka, who's barry?
17:36 < ricky> Haha, congrats
17:37 < onekopaka> nb: "Systems Wrangler" for Automattic.
17:37 < nb> ricky, yeah, i wasn't even nominated for the board until the morning
of our SGM (Special General Meeting)
17:37 < hiemanshu> nb: Congrats mate
17:37 < nb> someone mentioned why wasnt i on the list of candidates, i was like
well, noone nominated me
17:37 < hiemanshu> nb: back to blogs please ;)
17:38 < ricky> OK, so apart from asking Barry, I guess we can see if there are any
more sysadmin-types on their IRC chanenl
17:38 < ricky> **channel
17:38 < hiemanshu> ricky: #wordpressdev
17:38 < nb> hiemanshu, yeah true
17:38 < nb> ricky, and #wpmu
17:38 < hiemanshu> ricky: oops wrong link
17:39 < hiemanshu> nb: the channel closed down
17:39 < ricky> :-(
17:39 < ricky> I guess it's part of the merging with wordpress?
17:39 < nb> #wpmu is not closed
17:39 < nb> people are still there
17:39 < ricky> Oh
17:39 < onekopaka> #wordpressdev is?
17:39 < ricky> Oh, heh
17:40 < nb> oh ok
17:40 < hiemanshu> yup #wordpressdev
17:40 * hiemanshu remembers visiting it a couple of weeks back
17:41 < ricky> OK. If it's easier to do it with 100% https externally with http
from haproxy though, I'm all for that too :-)
17:41 < hiemanshu> /msg alis list *channelname* (within the *) works to find a list
of channels in FreeNode
17:41 < hiemanshu> ricky: i dont like the idea of faking it
17:41 < ricky> OK, so does anybody have anything else on blogs?
17:41 < onekopaka> nope.
17:41 < hiemanshu> you ll need to edit core files
17:42 < hiemanshu> which is what me mainly need
17:42 < onekopaka> except
17:42 < onekopaka> I have HAProxy on my server
17:42 < onekopaka> same version as in infra
17:42 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i said wordpress faking
17:42 < onekopaka> so we can test configs
17:42 < ricky> hiemanshu: The changes would be worth sending upstream though
17:42 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: I know.
17:43 < hiemanshu> ricky: most people dont fake it, they leave it in HTTP or get a
proper server to use it with
17:43 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: so wordpress faking would require core file changes
17:43 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: I know.
17:43 < ricky> Yeah, but having one server with it exposed to the outside is not
proper for us :-)
17:43 < hiemanshu> unless we can do it in another way
17:43 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: but I was going to say something.
17:43 < ricky> But anyway, if it involves modifying code, make sure the
modifications are good, and work to get them included upstream
17:43 < hiemanshu> ricky: so FAKING is not we want, so rule that out
17:44 < ricky> It might be good to ask ahead of time so that you don't step on
their toes with the merging into wordpress
17:44 < hiemanshu> ricky: why would people in wordpress include it?
17:44 < hiemanshu> they dont want people to use FAKE SSL
17:44 < ricky> Because it's a common setup to have a reverse proxy to an app
17:44 < onekopaka> ricky: not this way.
17:45 < onekopaka> ricky: people will more likely use nginx, which is what wp.com
17:45 < ricky> mmcgrath and the folks in #fedora-admin have years more sysadmin
experience than I do, so they say it's common, I believe him :-)
17:45 < ricky> s/him/them
17:46 < ricky> Anyway, until then:
17:46 < onekopaka> http://barry.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/load-balancer-update/
17:46 < ricky> #task Make a clear notice on http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/
it's not 100% ready yet and warn people NOT to login without SSL
17:46 < onekopaka> they do have a proxy > app server infra.
17:46 < onekopaka> but it's not with HAproxy
17:47 < onekopaka> it's with nginx.
17:47 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has quit "Leaving"
17:47 < ricky> OK, but is proxy -> app http or https?
17:47 < onekopaka> ricky: I tried to ask, but I can't find out.
17:48 < hiemanshu> ricky: an httpd change would serve us better than a WPMU change
17:48 < onekopaka> ricky: and who knows? maybe nginx sends through the fact that
17:48 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: #nginx
17:48 * hiemanshu will be back in a few
17:49 < ricky> Well, we're sticking with haproxy for the near future, so
it's probably better to concentrate on getting things to work with that
17:49 < onekopaka> back to what I tried to say
17:49 < onekopaka> I have HAProxy on my server so we can test configs without
screwing up the infra ones.
17:50 < ricky> OK, then let us know if you have any luck with the setup we need.
17:50 < ricky> So does anybody else have anything else on blogs?
17:50 < onekopaka> I haven't had luck and that's the problem
17:50 < onekopaka> I don't know people who know all the options of HAProxy.
17:50 < ricky> Also, does anybody want to take that task real quick after the
17:51 < onekopaka> because the documentation doesn't help.
17:51 -!- susmit [n=susmit(a)126.96.36.199] has joined #fedora-websites
17:51 -!- susmit [n=susmit(a)188.8.131.52] has quit Read error: 104 (Connection reset by
17:51 < ricky> Oops,
17:51 < ricky> #action Make a clear notice on http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/
that it's not 100% ready yet and warn people NOT to login without SSL
17:52 < ricky> onekopaka: Can you get that ^?
17:52 < onekopaka> I guess.
17:52 * hiemanshu is back
17:52 < ricky> Cool.
17:52 < hiemanshu> ricky: what task?
17:53 < ricky> Look a few lines up :-)
17:53 < hiemanshu> ricky: i see two taks
17:53 < hiemanshu> tasks*
17:53 < hiemanshu> 1)Proxy 2) the action stuff
17:53 * onekopaka is still upset that the theme totally screws the admin bar.
17:53 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: which theme?
17:54 < ricky> onekopaka: Feel free to work on fixes
17:54 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: the blogs.fp.o theme.
17:54 < onekopaka> it's really f'ing anoying
17:54 < onekopaka> annoying*
17:54 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i can help with that
17:54 < onekopaka> because there's no site admin link in the sidebar
17:55 < onekopaka> I have no idea how the admin bar got screwed up
17:55 < onekopaka> why it gets thrown in the FOOTER.
17:55 < nb> onekopaka, we can add a site admin link
17:55 < ricky> #action Fix the problem iwth the admin bar
17:55 < ricky> OK, we're near the 1 hour mark, so
17:55 < ricky> #topic Open floor
17:55 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Open floor (Meeting topic:
17:55 < ricky> Anything else to discuss this meeting?
17:55 < onekopaka> and the admin bar is the cleanest way to get to various admin
17:55 < hiemanshu> First off ricky thanks for making the right choice ;)
17:56 < ricky> Thanks to the board for their attention to the get-fedora thing - if
there are any questions in the future about the target audience for those pages, we can
just tell them to take it to the board :-)
17:57 * hiemanshu will make it a point to read the emails and know what the board wants
17:57 < onekopaka> so back to my local HAProxy story..
17:57 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: yeah go on
17:57 < onekopaka> we need a couple servers that run SSL.
17:57 < onekopaka> I have one.
17:58 < onekopaka> (this is just for testing HAProxy config)
17:58 < ricky> You can always run two on different port
17:58 < ricky> **ports
17:58 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i can try ask my clients for a couple
17:58 < hiemanshu> asking**
17:58 < onekopaka> ricky: nope. I wouldn't do such a thing.
17:59 -!- sijis_afk is now known as sijis
17:59 < onekopaka> ricky: it was already a pain to get SSL working in the first
17:59 < onekopaka> so
17:59 < hiemanshu> sijis: too early for the next meeting ;)
17:59 < onekopaka> it just needs to have SSL, and be willing to be hit by my HAProxy
18:00 < onekopaka> my IP, incase you want to track, is 184.108.40.206
18:00 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i have a shared web server, not sure if that would
18:00 < onekopaka> hiemanshu: does it have SSL accessible?
18:00 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: yup
18:00 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: i can give you the details if you want to have a look
18:01 < onekopaka> hmm
18:02 < onekopaka> so
18:02 < sijis> hiemanshu: :)
18:02 < onekopaka> I may be willing to open an account on my mac for you people to
18:02 < onekopaka> maybe.
18:03 < onekopaka> so.
18:03 < hiemanshu> onekopaka: would love to ;)
18:03 < hiemanshu> sijis: read the logs, lots of stuff happening
18:04 < sijis> hiemanshu: yup.. will do. gotta fix my monitor resolution though.. i
jackked it up :(
18:04 < hiemanshu> sijis: changed it 640x480 huh?
18:04 < hiemanshu> or 320x240?
18:04 < ricky> OK, we're a bit over the hour mark, so I'll end the meeting
for now, and we can continue talking here
18:04 < ricky> #endmeeting
18:04 < onekopaka> anyone who would want access would have to send their public key
18:04 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: The Fedora Websites team
maintains the official Fedora Project websites (http://fedoraproject.org/
) | Want to help
us? Contact the respective leaders listed here :
18:04 < zodbot> Meeting ended Fri Jul 31 18:04:30 2009 UTC. Information about
MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
18:04 < zodbot> Minutes:
18:04 < zodbot> Minutes (text):
18:04 < zodbot> Log: