xfce spin size

[Kevin Fenzi]

Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 

      xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
      xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  

So, we need about 30ish MB. 

I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems to
have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there). 

Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove?

kevin

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2010-09-18 at 17:18 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
>  
>        xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
>        xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  
>  
>  So, we need about 30ish MB. 
>  
>  I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
>  suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
>  This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems to
>  have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there). 
>  
>  Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove? 
Only question is, does the spin need to be CD sized any more? have you
considered the things the desktop group considered?

does xfce use metacity as the wm? If not, you may be able to save space
by doing what kde did and running firstboot inside xfce's wm, thus
saving the space of metacity+deps.

I asked for live desktop images for rc2, btw - so an xfce beta rc2 image
should be available for testing soon.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 01:23:28 +0200
Adam Williamson <awilliam(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Sat, 2010-09-18 at 17:18 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  > Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
>  > 
>  >       xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
>  >       xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  
>  > 
>  > So, we need about 30ish MB. 
>  > 
>  > I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
>  > suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
>  > This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems
>  > to have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there). 
>  > 
>  > Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove?
>  
>  Only question is, does the spin need to be CD sized any more? have you
>  considered the things the desktop group considered? 
I think it does. People picking Xfce could well have older machines and
thus cdrom drives and possibly not booting from usb. 
>  
>  does xfce use metacity as the wm? If not, you may be able to save
>  space by doing what kde did and running firstboot inside xfce's wm,
>  thus saving the space of metacity+deps. 
Yeah, I am going to look at doing this, but it doesn't help us any
until we get rid of gdm. ;( 

>  I asked for live desktop images for rc2, btw - so an xfce beta rc2
>  image should be available for testing soon. 
ok. Cool. thanks. 

kevin

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Sonntag, den 19.09.2010, 01:23 +0200 schrieb Adam Williamson:
>  On Sat, 2010-09-18 at 17:18 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  > Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
>  > 
>  >       xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
>  >       xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  
>  > 
>  > So, we need about 30ish MB. 
>  > 
>  > I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
>  > suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
>  > This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems to
>  > have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there).
>  > 
>  > Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove? 
I don't like the idea of removing Java. Instead I suggest to remove
ether midori or firefox as we don't need two browsers. If we drop
firefox, I'm fine with dropping java too.

>  Only question is, does the spin need to be CD sized any more? have
> you
>  considered the things the desktop group considered? 
I think it should still target 700 MB. Here in EMEA we are doing Xfce
live CDs. The problem for me is that Fedora gets bigger by 30-40 with
every release.

>  does xfce use metacity as the wm? If not, you may be able to save
> space
>  by doing what kde did and running firstboot inside xfce's wm, thus
>  saving the space of metacity+deps. 
I have built a new xfwm4 package with "Provides:
firstboot(windowmanager)", so we get rid of metacity now. 
Let's see how much this saves us before we decide to drop more things.

Regards,
Christoph

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:01:27 +0200
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Sonntag, den 19.09.2010, 01:23 +0200 schrieb Adam Williamson:
>  > On Sat, 2010-09-18 at 17:18 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  > > Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
>  > > 
>  > >       xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
>  > >       xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  
>  > > 
>  > > So, we need about 30ish MB. 
>  > > 
>  > > I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
>  > > suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
>  > > This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk
>  > > seems to have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working
>  > > there).
>  > > 
>  > > Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove?
>  
>  I don't like the idea of removing Java. Instead I suggest to remove
>  ether midori or firefox as we don't need two browsers. If we drop
>  firefox, I'm fine with dropping java too. 
I think the only way that would get enough space with that is to drop
java + firefox. Midori and webkitgtk amount to 6 or 7MB. 

>  > does xfce use metacity as the wm? If not, you may be able to
> save
>  > space by doing what kde did and running firstboot inside xfce's wm,
>  > thus saving the space of metacity+deps.
>  
>  I have built a new xfwm4 package with "Provides:
>  firstboot(windowmanager)", so we get rid of metacity now. 
>  Let's see how much this saves us before we decide to drop more things. 
Nothing, as we are using gdm, which in turn requires control-center
which requires metacity. ;( 

kevin

[Ron Leach]

Nathan Thomas wrote:
>  
>  
>  On 19/09/10 00:18, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
> >
> >       xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
> >       xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  
> >
> > So, we need about 30ish MB. 
> >
> > I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
> > suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
> > This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems to
> > have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there). 
> >
> > Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove?
>  
>  Do we need QuodLibet if Parole will happily play audio files?
>  
>  Could we replace the GIMP with something smaller?
>  
>  I'm just thinking that those who need more specialist software like the 
>  GIMP will probably know how to get it, but new users who fire up a web 
>  browser and come across web pages that don't load properly might not 
>  know that they need to install the java package. It's hassle enough 
>  trying to get flash working, without having to jump through another hoop 
>  to get full internet access! 
+ 1 for having Java in Firefox, as standard.

GIMP is pretty impressive in a live-CD, but it is less mainstream than 
FF/Java.

I noticed that Geany is on my FC13 system (which I've added many 
things to) but if that is included, is important for development work?

Certainly, FF and Java are pretty important.

And I agree that XFCE is useful for reduced-spec machines.

regards, Ron

[Frank Murphy]

On 19/09/10 00:18, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
so I am going to reluctantly
>  suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
As I'm learning Java, it would be a first reinstall.

>  This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems
> to
>  have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there).
>
>  Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove? 
As others  have said maybe gimp?
Is geany actually used amongst spin users?

-- 
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of Fedora

[Ron Leach]

Frank Murphy wrote:

>  Is geany actually used amongst spin users?
>   
I do use Geany - not for devel, but because it seems to be an easy 
text editor to use.  But if there's another GUI text editor, with 
search, I would be ok.

I use the spin.  I use the spin to install from; I could not install 
from an FC DVD because in the initial booting sequence it didn't give 
me enough time to trackpad-down-to-the-bottom to set the language and 
keyboard - whose lists were quite long and so with a trackpad took a 
long time to get to the one I needed (near the end).  By which time 
the system 'continued' with US - I think - settings so I abandoned it. 
  I used the Live-CD spin, installed from that (which worked nicely), 
but then found it really difficult to set up the DVD as another source 
for software updates.  So I had to get most of the extra bits from the 
online sources. That's quite difficult on slow internet connections. 
I hadn't subscribed to the list(s) in those days so I've never 
described this user difficulty before.

I use the spin to install from it, and to use it as a live-cd for 
various quick things, I do like it.  And I use Geany simply because I 
know it.

Ron

[Frank Murphy]

On 19/09/10 11:43, Ron Leach wrote:
>  Frank Murphy wrote:
>
> > Is geany actually used amongst spin users?
> >
>
>  I do use Geany - not for devel, but because it seems to be an easy
>  text editor to use.  But if there's another GUI text editor, with
>  search, I would be ok. 
What do you mean by search?
mousepad has "find"

-- 
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of Fedora

[Ron Leach]

Frank Murphy wrote:
>  On 19/09/10 11:43, Ron Leach wrote:
> > Frank Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> Is geany actually used amongst spin users?
> >>
> > I do use Geany - not for devel, but because it seems to be an easy
> > text editor to use.  But if there's another GUI text editor, with
> > search, I would be ok.
>  
>  What do you mean by search?
>  mousepad has "find"
>   
Frank, thank you.  Yes, of course it has.  For some reason, mousepad 
'freezes' on the system I've installed f13 on.  (I'm sure it's 
something on our system, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong in 
the software).  So I switched to Geany - which we also use on other 
platforms so we are familiar with it.

Sorry, Frank, I'd clean forgotten why we stopped using Mousepad in the 
first place - it must have been virtually after release that we hit 
the problem and just used Geany instead, quite happily.

Remembering that, I am going to try f14 and see whether the mousepad 
problem comes back.  I'll run it from the CD though, I don't want to 
overwrite the f13 installation.

regards, Ron

[Ron Leach]

Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
>  
>        xfce-i386-20100917.16.iso   17-Sep-2010 17:54  727M  
>        xfce-x86_64-20100916.15.iso 16-Sep-2010 17:07  728M  
>  
>  So, we need about 30ish MB. 
>  
>  I can't see any easy thing to remove, so I am going to reluctantly
>  suggest we remove the java-1.6.0-openjdk* packages. :( 
>  This means no java plugin out of the box on firefox (openjdk seems to
>  have issues with midori, so I wouldn't call it working there). 
>  
>  Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove?
>  
>  
On the subject of what's out, could I check whether 'vino' is in?  We 
often use the spin on systems which are physically not easily 
reached/manipulated, and a remote desktop to a workstation is really 
handy, and simplifies the 'customisation' stage after initial start-up 
or install.  Just wondered whether it was in the basic set for FC14.

Ron

[Frank Murphy]

On 19/09/10 11:55, Ron Leach wrote:

>  On the subject of what's out, could I check whether
> 'vino' is in?  We
>  often use the spin on systems which are physically not easily
>  reached/manipulated, and a remote desktop to a workstation is really
>  handy, and simplifies the 'customisation' stage after initial start-up
>  or install.  Just wondered whether it was in the basic set for FC14.
>
>  Ron
>  
iirc rdesktop is included?


-- 
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of Fedora

[Suvayu Ali]

On 19 September 2010 03:56, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 19/09/10 11:55, Ron Leach wrote:
>
> > On the subject of what's out, could I check whether 'vino' is in?  We
> > often use the spin on systems which are physically not easily
> > reached/manipulated, and a remote desktop to a workstation is really
> > handy, and simplifies the 'customisation' stage after initial start-up
> > or install.  Just wondered whether it was in the basic set for FC14.
> >
> > Ron
> >
>
>  iirc rdesktop is included?
>  
I would guess we have remmina. I find its a very good remote desktop client.

>  --
>  Regards, 
-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

xfce spin size (OT: RDP/VNC server)

[Ron Leach]

suvayu ali wrote:
>  On 19 September 2010 03:56, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
> > On 19/09/10 11:55, Ron Leach wrote:
> >
> >> On the subject of what's out, could I check whether 'vino' is in? 
> We
> >> often use the spin on systems which are physically not easily
> >> reached/manipulated, and a remote desktop to a workstation is really
> >> handy, and simplifies the 'customisation' stage after initial start-up
> >> or install. 
> > iirc rdesktop is included?
> >
>  
>  I would guess we have remmina. I find its a very good remote desktop client.
>   
I think I phrased it badly.  I meant accessing an FC14 system from (ie 
using a remote desktop client on) 'some other' workstation.

On FC13 we use vino to serve the FC13's own desktop to some other 
workstation; I 'think' vino was in FC13 already.  Had difficulty 
setting up vnc-server, and then found vino which we found easier to 
use.  We were new to Fedora at the time.

The FC13 system is the server running vino, some other VNC-protocol 
workstation (Windows, or Linux) can use the FC13 system.

rdesktop seems to be the client (not the server) and I thought remmina 
was, also.

regards, Ron

xfce spin size (OT: RDP/VNC server)

[Johannes Lips]

Hi,

+1 for not removing openjdk and removal of an application. I think one
important point is that a missing application is easy to see but the reason
for non working webpages is not so easy to find. I think the issue with
midori and openjdk is already solved at least for me.

Greetings,
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Ron Leach <ronleach(a)tesco.net&gt; wrote:

>  suvayu ali wrote:
>  > On 19 September 2010 03:56, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  >> On 19/09/10 11:55, Ron Leach wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> On the subject of what's out, could I check whether 'vino' is
> in?  We
>  >>> often use the spin on systems which are physically not easily
>  >>> reached/manipulated, and a remote desktop to a workstation is really
>  >>> handy, and simplifies the 'customisation' stage after initial
> start-up
>  >>> or install.
>
>  >> iirc rdesktop is included?
>  >>
>  >
>  > I would guess we have remmina. I find its a very good remote desktop
>  client.
>  >
>  I think I phrased it badly.  I meant accessing an FC14 system from (ie
>  using a remote desktop client on) 'some other' workstation.
>
>  On FC13 we use vino to serve the FC13's own desktop to some other
>  workstation; I 'think' vino was in FC13 already.  Had difficulty
>  setting up vnc-server, and then found vino which we found easier to
>  use.  We were new to Fedora at the time.
>
>  The FC13 system is the server running vino, some other VNC-protocol
>  workstation (Windows, or Linux) can use the FC13 system.
>
>  rdesktop seems to be the client (not the server) and I thought remmina
>  was, also.
>
>  regards, Ron
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>

[Ron Leach]

Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  Currently we are over sized on the Xfce spin for f14: 
>
>  <snip suggestion of removing Java>
>
>  Any objections? Or other items people see for us to remove?
>   
The f13 system we run has a very pleasant set of screensavers which 
cycle through randomly.  Actually, it (and they) are very, very good - 
I enjoy seeing them when I return to a desk.

Thinking I am unlikely to have (knowingly) installed them as extras, 
they may have been on the original f13 spin; if so (and I am not 
certain of that), is there a similarly rich set of screen savers etc 
on the f14 spin?  Could the set be reduced, to help?

Ron (pretty anxious to retain FF & Java on the spin).