4.12

[ToddAndMargo]

Hi All,

Would you guys please consider going back to Xfce 4.12
in Fedora 30?  Xfce 4.13 is just too buggy to let loose
on my customers!

Me?  I work around them and have reported a ton of them.
But way too many problems for a non-technical customer.
I have just been installing Fedora 28, which is near end
of life or just jumping to Mate.  And I really do
adore Xfce.

Guess there is no change of Xfce 4.14 in Fedora 30?

Many thanks,
-T

[Kevin Fenzi]

On 4/13/19 3:46 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Would you guys please consider going back to Xfce 4.12
> in Fedora 30?  Xfce 4.13 is just too buggy to let loose
> on my customers!
>
> Me?  I work around them and have reported a ton of them.
> But way too many problems for a non-technical customer.

huh. So, I see 62 bugs in f29/f30/f31 in the 4.13 components with '4.13
in them somewhere. Of those, 51 are abrt reports. It's usually pretty
difficult to track down abrt reports unless there's a clear reproducer.
Of the other 10, some are anoying, but nothing leaps out as a show
stopper to me at least. It's way too late in the f30 cycle to change
things back to 4.12.

Perhaps you could list the most important bugs you hit and we can see if
we can get some traction to fix them?
> I have just been installing Fedora 28, which is near end
> of life or just jumping to Mate.  And I really do
> adore Xfce.
>
> Guess there is no change of Xfce 4.14 in Fedora 30?

Nope. Thats up to when upstream releases it. Even if they released
today, final freeze for f30 is next tuesday.

kevin

[ToddAndMargo]

On 4/13/19 5:30 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On 4/13/19 3:46 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Would you guys please consider going back to Xfce 4.12
> > in Fedora 30?  Xfce 4.13 is just too buggy to let loose
> > on my customers!
> >
> > Me?  I work around them and have reported a ton of them.
> > But way too many problems for a non-technical customer.
>
> huh. So, I see 62 bugs in f29/f30/f31 in the 4.13 components with '4.13
> in them somewhere. Of those, 51 are abrt reports. It's usually pretty
> difficult to track down abrt reports unless there's a clear reproducer.
> Of the other 10, some are anoying, but nothing leaps out as a show
> stopper to me at least. It's way too late in the f30 cycle to change
> things back to 4.12.
>
> Perhaps you could list the most important bugs you hit and we can see if
> we can get some traction to fix them?

Hi Kevin,

This one is TOTALLY O-B-N-O-X-I-O-U-S!
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12516

These two will drive a non-technical user our of his mind:
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14923
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14854

Here is a bunch of the rest:

https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15238
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15172
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=50418
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=50340
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=50266
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14863
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=50188
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=50185
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14842
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14830
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14829
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14828
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14827
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14217

And it does not seem like they are getting worked
on either.  But, I presume that they are fixing them
in 4.14 as that is a better use of their scarce resources.
> > I have just been installing Fedora 28, which is near end
> > of life or just jumping to Mate.  And I really do
> > adore Xfce.
> >
> > Guess there is no change of Xfce 4.14 in Fedora 30?
>
> Nope. Thats up to when upstream releases it. Even if they released
> today, final freeze for f30 is next tuesday.

Oh crap.  I hope they get the issues with the upgrade fixed.  When I 
tried upgrading a f29 VM to 30 last week it slaughtered grub.

-T

[Dimitrios Apostolou]

So I clicked on the first bug you mentioned:

On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> This one is TOTALLY O-B-N-O-X-I-O-U-S!
> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12516

and I see that you are having the problem way before XFCE 4.13 (and the
developers have answered that it is not a bug in XFCE and that it's not
straightforward to work-around with the "acceleration toggle" you are
suggesting).

Why do you even mention it here, was it by mistake?  I did not bother
clicking on the other links. What bugs do you have specific to 4.13?

Dimitris

[ToddAndMargo]

On 4/14/19 4:35 AM, Dimitrios Apostolou wrote:
> So I clicked on the first bug you mentioned:
>
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > This one is TOTALLY O-B-N-O-X-I-O-U-S!
> > https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12516
>
> and I see that you are having the problem way before XFCE 4.13 (and the
> developers have answered that it is not a bug in XFCE and that it's not
> straightforward to work-around with the "acceleration toggle" you are
> suggesting).
>
> Why do you even mention it here, was it by mistake?  I did not bother
> clicking on the other links. What bugs do you have specific to 4.13?
>
> Dimitris

It does not matter.  Accelerated or non accelerated.  I drives
me crazy!  And yes it is their problem.  They are the ones reading
and responding to the mouse

[David Dusanic]

ToddAndMargo:
> Oh crap.  I hope they get the issues with the upgrade fixed.  When I 
> tried upgrading a f29 VM to 30 last week it slaughtered grub.

Probably but Fedora 30 is still in beta! Have patience, wait and upgrade 
when the release is officially out and I guess you won't have real 
problems while upgrading.
Of course people should try Betas and report bugs so that the release 
can rock.

[ToddAndMargo]

On 4/14/19 4:26 PM, David Dusanic wrote:
> ToddAndMargo:
> > Oh crap.  I hope they get the issues with the upgrade fixed.  When I 
> > tried upgrading a f29 VM to 30 last week it slaughtered grub.
>
> Probably but Fedora 30 is still in beta! Have patience, wait and upgrade 
> when the release is officially out and I guess you won't have real 
> problems while upgrading.
> Of course people should try Betas and report bugs so that the release 
> can rock.

Nice thing about VM's is that it is very easy to restore your
hard drive from backup, which is what I did.

[Jos Vos]

Hi,

On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 03:46:00PM -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> Would you guys please consider going back to Xfce 4.12
> in Fedora 30?  Xfce 4.13 is just too buggy to let loose
> on my customers!

FWIW, I'm a happy Xfce user on F29.  The only issue I (only
rarely) see is a panel crash (looks related to a system
shutdown/reboot, just before or after), but a crashing panel
restarts itself immediately, so I didn't dig into it.

I have to admit my desktop "only" consists of *many* (multi-tab)
terminals, a browser and a chat app, so that doesn't make
things too difficult ;-).  Oh yeah, and the display settings
(I frequently switch between configurations without and with
different secondary display) could work better, the suggested
"profiles" do not seem to work at all.

Still, the slow upstream Xfce development worries me, but when
I looked for an alternative some time ago (before upgrading to
F29) I scanned through many comparisons and reviews and decided
to stay with Xfce.

Cheers,

[Dimitrios Apostolou]

FWIW I am also a happy everyday user of XFCE in Fedora 29. It actually
works better than before (multi-monitor auto-configuration works) so I
would not support reverting to 4.12.

Regards,
Dimitris

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, Jos Vos wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 03:46:00PM -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > Would you guys please consider going back to Xfce 4.12
> > in Fedora 30?  Xfce 4.13 is just too buggy to let loose
> > on my customers!
>
> FWIW, I'm a happy Xfce user on F29.  The only issue I (only
> rarely) see is a panel crash (looks related to a system
> shutdown/reboot, just before or after), but a crashing panel
> restarts itself immediately, so I didn't dig into it.
>
> I have to admit my desktop "only" consists of *many* (multi-tab)
> terminals, a browser and a chat app, so that doesn't make
> things too difficult ;-).  Oh yeah, and the display settings
> (I frequently switch between configurations without and with
> different secondary display) could work better, the suggested
> "profiles" do not seem to work at all.
>
> Still, the slow upstream Xfce development worries me, but when
> I looked for an alternative some time ago (before upgrading to
> F29) I scanned through many comparisons and reviews and decided
> to stay with Xfce.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> --    Jos Vos 
> --    X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV   |   Office: [phone]
> --    Amsterdam, The Netherlands        |   Mobile: [phone]
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[ToddAndMargo]

On 4/14/19 3:33 AM, Jos Vos wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 03:46:00PM -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > Would you guys please consider going back to Xfce 4.12
> > in Fedora 30?  Xfce 4.13 is just too buggy to let loose
> > on my customers!
>
> FWIW, I'm a happy Xfce user on F29.  The only issue I (only
> rarely) see is a panel crash (looks related to a system
> shutdown/reboot, just before or after), but a crashing panel
> restarts itself immediately, so I didn't dig into it.
>
> I have to admit my desktop "only" consists of *many* (multi-tab)
> terminals, a browser and a chat app, so that doesn't make
> things too difficult ;-).  Oh yeah, and the display settings
> (I frequently switch between configurations without and with
> different secondary display) could work better, the suggested
> "profiles" do not seem to work at all.
>
> Still, the slow upstream Xfce development worries me, but when
> I looked for an alternative some time ago (before upgrading to
> F29) I scanned through many comparisons and reviews and decided
> to stay with Xfce.
>
> Cheers,

I am a total fan of Xfce.  This is why this is concerns me.  I have a 
laptop to Fedora-ize for a customer and I really want her on Xfce.

What do I do is ever forth day her panel 0 disappears?

The reset, I have great notes on workaround and can pre-fix things
for her.