Live request

[ToddAndMargo]

Hi all,

Now that we have room on our Xfce Live DVD and
I have had a bunch of experience with the Live
DVD this week at customer sites, I would like to
humbly request the inclusion of the follow packages.

wget:
Just because

system-config-printer
I have to test printers all the time.  And no one
will upgrade to Linux if I can't show them their
printer will work.  And it is a lot easier to use
than 127.0.0.1:631 (tip: you need to give root
a password to get cups to work)

firefox:
Need a full function browser.  The one that comes
with Live DVD burps on certain sites

gimp:
Need to take screenshots and make annotations for
documentation, especially when working on routers
and firewalls

And if you are still speaking to me:

hplip:
Needed for printer support

LibreOffice::
needed to recover M$ Office documents from
corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
And they can play with it to see if they like it

Thank you for your consideration,
-T

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:21:35 -0800
ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Now that we have room on our Xfce Live DVD and
> I have had a bunch of experience with the Live
> DVD this week at customer sites, I would like to
> humbly request the inclusion of the follow packages.

Sorry for the long delay here. I've been really busy. ;(
> wget:
> Just because

Sure, it's tiny, we can add it...
> system-config-printer
> I have to test printers all the time.  And no one
> will upgrade to Linux if I can't show them their
> printer will work.  And it is a lot easier to use
> than 127.0.0.1:631 (tip: you need to give root
> a password to get cups to work)

Seems reasonable.
> firefox:
> Need a full function browser.  The one that comes
> with Live DVD burps on certain sites

If everyone wants to go back to firefox, we can, but I don't think 
we should ship 2 browsers + stacks.

Soon midori is going to webkit2/gtk3, so it might work better for
more folks, and also we can drop webkitgtk which should save some 
room.

Other folks thoughts?
> gimp:
> Need to take screenshots and make annotations for
> documentation, especially when working on routers
> and firewalls

xfce4-screenshooter should be available for that?
> And if you are still speaking to me:

:)
> hplip:
> Needed for printer support

I think it pulled in a lot of stuff, but we can see.
> LibreOffice::
> needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> And they can play with it to see if they like it

Way too large I think personally.
> Thank you for your consideration,
> -T

kevin

[Florian Lehner]

> > firefox:
> > Need a full function browser.  The one that comes
> > with Live DVD burps on certain sites
>
> If everyone wants to go back to firefox, we can, but I don't think
> we should ship 2 browsers + stacks.
>
> Soon midori is going to webkit2/gtk3, so it might work better for
> more folks, and also we can drop webkitgtk which should save some
> room.
>
> Other folks thoughts?

There is a major bug in midori (
https://bugs.launchpad.net/midori/+bug/1190769 ) which lets midori
segfault regularly. So I am for firefox.

Cheers,
 flo

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/19/2015 01:08 AM, Florian Lehner wrote:
> > > firefox:
> > > Need a full function browser.  The one that comes
> > > with Live DVD burps on certain sites
> >
> > If everyone wants to go back to firefox, we can, but I don't think
> > we should ship 2 browsers + stacks.
> >
> > Soon midori is going to webkit2/gtk3, so it might work better for
> > more folks, and also we can drop webkitgtk which should save some
> > room.
> >
> > Other folks thoughts?
>
> There is a major bug in midori (
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/midori/+bug/1190769 ) which lets midori
> segfault regularly. So I am for firefox.
>
> Cheers,
>   flo

1+  too many bugs and incompatibilities.  Plus the
customer wants to see what they will eventually get and
they will not being using Midori as it is too stripped.

[Jim Dean]

Hope I'm not out of place suggesting this but you might be better looking
at a Fedora remix and most have what you want. I would suggest Korora as
I'm involved with that project but there are others too.

Jim

On 21 February 2015 at 12:56, ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> On 02/19/2015 01:08 AM, Florian Lehner wrote:
> > firefox:
> > > > Need a full function browser.  The one that comes
> > > > with Live DVD burps on certain sites
> > >
> > > If everyone wants to go back to firefox, we can, but I don't think
> > > we should ship 2 browsers + stacks.
> > >
> > > Soon midori is going to webkit2/gtk3, so it might work better for
> > > more folks, and also we can drop webkitgtk which should save some
> > > room.
> > >
> > > Other folks thoughts?
> >
> > There is a major bug in midori (
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/midori/+bug/1190769 ) which lets midori
> > segfault regularly. So I am for firefox.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   flo
>
> 1+  too many bugs and incompatibilities.  Plus the
> customer wants to see what they will eventually get and
> they will not being using Midori as it is too stripped.
>
> xfce mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/20/2015 07:06 PM, Jim Dean wrote:
> Hope I'm not out of place suggesting this but you might be better
> looking at a Fedora remix and most have what you want. I would suggest
> Korora as I'm involved with that project but there are others too.
>
> Jim

Hi Jim,

Thank you.  I am looking at it.

Is that a Fedora spin?  And what am I downloading?  A Live USB?

-T

[Jim Dean]

Like a spin but called a remix. Yes it is a live system
On 21/02/2015 4:12 PM, "ToddAndMargo"  wrote:
> On 02/20/2015 07:06 PM, Jim Dean wrote:
> > Hope I'm not out of place suggesting this but you might be better
> > looking at a Fedora remix and most have what you want. I would suggest
> > Korora as I'm involved with that project but there are others too.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thank you.  I am looking at it.
>
> Is that a Fedora spin?  And what am I downloading?  A Live USB?
>
> -T
>
> --
> Computers are like air conditioners.
> They malfunction when you open windows
>
> xfce mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:56:56 -0800
ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> > There is a major bug in midori (
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/midori/+bug/1190769 ) which lets midori
> > segfault regularly. So I am for firefox.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   flo
>
> 1+  too many bugs and incompatibilities.  Plus the
> customer wants to see what they will eventually get and
> they will not being using Midori as it is too stripped.

Yeah, I have hit that one, but not often I wouldn't say.

kevin

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > LibreOffice::
> > > needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> > > corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> > > if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> > > And they can play with it to see if they like it
> Way too large I think personally.

You have 4.7 GB on the disk.  And showing customers
they don;'t need M$ Office is a big deal, plus they
love to see their documents recovered.

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800
ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > LibreOffice::
> > > > needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> > > > corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> > > > if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> > > > And they can play with it to see if they like it
> > Way too large I think personally.
>
> You have 4.7 GB on the disk.  And showing customers
> they don;'t need M$ Office is a big deal, plus they
> love to see their documents recovered.

No, we are currently targeting a 1gb usb, not a full sized dvd. :)

We could of course change that...

kevin

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/21/2015 08:15 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800
> ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> > On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > > LibreOffice::
> > > > > needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> > > > > corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> > > > > if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> > > > > And they can play with it to see if they like it
> > > Way too large I think personally.
> >
> > You have 4.7 GB on the disk.  And showing customers
> > they don;'t need M$ Office is a big deal, plus they
> > love to see their documents recovered.
>
> No, we are currently targeting a 1gb usb, not a full sized dvd. :)
>
> We could of course change that...
>
> kevin

Hi Kevin,

I can not even find a 1 GB USB at my suppliers, except for
the terrible/cheap ones that are so very, very SLOW and
fall apart.

This is a good USB3 for such things.  Reasonably priced too:

http://www.kingston.com/us/usb/personal_business#dtr30g2

Note that is starts at 16 GB.  and, it is fast enough that
a system won't take longer to boot than it takes to grow
potatoes.

-T

[Orion Poplawski]

On 02/23/2015 07:32 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> On 02/21/2015 08:15 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800
> > ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> > > On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > > > LibreOffice::
> > > > > > needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> > > > > > corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> > > > > > if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> > > > > > And they can play with it to see if they like it
> > > > Way too large I think personally.
> > >
> > > You have 4.7 GB on the disk.  And showing customers
> > > they don;'t need M$ Office is a big deal, plus they
> > > love to see their documents recovered.
> >
> > No, we are currently targeting a 1gb usb, not a full sized dvd. :)
> >
> > We could of course change that...
> >
> > kevin
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> I can not even find a 1 GB USB at my suppliers, except for
> the terrible/cheap ones that are so very, very SLOW and
> fall apart.

I doubt it's so much the storage on the user end as storage and 
bandwidth on the mirrors.

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/23/2015 07:13 PM, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> On 02/23/2015 07:32 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > On 02/21/2015 08:15 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800
> > > ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> > > > On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > > > > LibreOffice::
> > > > > > > needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> > > > > > > corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> > > > > > > if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> > > > > > > And they can play with it to see if they like it
> > > > > Way too large I think personally.
> > > >
> > > > You have 4.7 GB on the disk.  And showing customers
> > > > they don;'t need M$ Office is a big deal, plus they
> > > > love to see their documents recovered.
> > >
> > > No, we are currently targeting a 1gb usb, not a full sized dvd. :)
> > >
> > > We could of course change that...
> > >
> > > kevin
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> >
> > I can not even find a 1 GB USB at my suppliers, except for
> > the terrible/cheap ones that are so very, very SLOW and
> > fall apart.
>
> I doubt it's so much the storage on the user end as storage and
> bandwidth on the mirrors.

I have gotten around that by formatting with ext4 and
setting up for persistence.

Problem is, I am finding it rather difficult to get most
PC's to actually boot off a USB stick.  Some do, most don't.
Supermicro's BIOS'es are an especially big pain in the neck
(not my exact word).  Most PC's will boot off a DVD though.
And NO MAC (OSx) will boot off a Live USB without jumping
though some crazy hoops.

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 23 February 2015 at 20:19, ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> On 02/23/2015 07:13 PM, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> > On 02/23/2015 07:32 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > > On 02/21/2015 08:15 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800
> > > > ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > > > > LibreOffice::
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> needed to recover M$ Office documents from
> > > > > > >> corrupted Windows disks.  And to demonstrate that
> > > > > > >> if they upgrade to Linux, they don't need M$ Office.
> > > > > > >> And they can play with it to see if they like it
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Way too large I think personally.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You have 4.7 GB on the disk.  And showing customers
> > > > > they don;'t need M$ Office is a big deal, plus they
> > > > > love to see their documents recovered.
> > > >
> > > > No, we are currently targeting a 1gb usb, not a full sized dvd. :)
> > > >
> > > > We could of course change that...
> > > >
> > > > kevin
> > >
> > > Hi Kevin,
> > >
> > > I can not even find a 1 GB USB at my suppliers, except for
> > > the terrible/cheap ones that are so very, very SLOW and
> > > fall apart.
> >
> > I doubt it's so much the storage on the user end as storage and
> > bandwidth on the mirrors.
>
> I have gotten around that by formatting with ext4 and
> setting up for persistence.
>
> Problem is, I am finding it rather difficult to get most
> PC's to actually boot off a USB stick.  Some do, most don't.

Eh? I have dealt with a ton of Supermicro, Asus, and other motherboard
computers and they have all worked with USB. Of course this is all hardware
post 2010 so I am guessing the age might be an issue?
> Supermicro's BIOS'es are an especially big pain in the neck
> (not my exact word).  Most PC's will boot off a DVD though.
> And NO MAC (OSx) will boot off a Live USB without jumping
> though some crazy hoops.

No recent Mac comes with a DVD either.
> --
> Computers are like air conditioners.
> They malfunction when you open windows
>
> xfce mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/23/2015 07:38 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> Eh? I have dealt with a ton of Supermicro, Asus, and other motherboard
> computers and they have all worked with USB. Of course this is all
> hardware post 2010 so I am guessing the age might be an issue?

Hi John,

In my case, older (say 4 years of so) Supermico motherboards have
no problem.  It is the new ones I am having troubles with.  I
have gotten with Supermicro over the problem and they have come
up with a new bios to fix it.  It did as long as you left "legacy
USB" support enabled.  Then, gosh help you if you leave and kind
of USB stick in the machine when you (re)boot up.  I reported that
one to Supermicro too.  Haven't heard back from them yet.

I hate upgrading BIOS'es as I have had them go foobar on me.  I will
do it on a new board I haven't installed anything on yet.  But
after it get configured/installed, I am loath to upgrade
a bios.
> Supermicro's BIOS'es are an especially big pain in the neck
> (not my exact word).  Most PC's will boot off a DVD though.
> And NO MAC (OSx) will boot off a Live USB without jumping
> though some crazy hoops.
>
>
> No recent Mac comes with a DVD either.

Total pain in the neck.  (Had to clean that one up.)  I put
Parallel and Windows 7 Pro on a Mac for a customer last week.
Asus SDRW-08U5S-U External DVD-Writer did the trick.  Now if
he needs to install software from CD/DVD he has a wondering
drive to do it with.   I think Apple wants you to buy everything
on line (from them) and download it.

-T

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 23 February 2015 at 21:22, ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> On 02/23/2015 07:38 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > Eh? I have dealt with a ton of Supermicro, Asus, and other motherboard
> > computers and they have all worked with USB. Of course this is all
> > hardware post 2010 so I am guessing the age might be an issue?
>
> Hi John,
>
> In my case, older (say 4 years of so) Supermico motherboards have
> no problem.  It is the new ones I am having troubles with.  I
> have gotten with Supermicro over the problem and they have come
> up with a new bios to fix it.  It did as long as you left "legacy
> USB" support enabled.  Then, gosh help you if you leave and kind
> of USB stick in the machine when you (re)boot up.  I reported that
> one to Supermicro too.  Haven't heard back from them yet.

So for booting from USB, you normally have to put it into legacy USB unless
you have created the key with EFI support. If you create the key with EFI
support you have to play roulette with legacy either turned on or off so
that the system UEFI will boot from it.
> I hate upgrading BIOS'es as I have had them go foobar on me.  I will
> do it on a new board I haven't installed anything on yet.  But
> after it get configured/installed, I am loath to upgrade
> a bios.

Yeah.. it used to be a lottery but they have gotten much better. These days
if a BIOS bricks itself there is usually multiple things wrong with the
board that you didn't know you needed to get fixed until it bricked itself.
You have to do the BIOS updates fairly regularly because the kernel is
looking for certain things which only an updated BIOS can offer (ACPI and
such are notorious for this)

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/18/2015 06:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > gimp:
> > > Need to take screenshots and make annotations for
> > > documentation, especially when working on routers
> > > and firewalls
>
> xfce4-screenshooter should be available for that?

But you can't edit for your documentation
(when I network, I usually will boot out of Windows into
Live DVD so that I have access to all my cool tools
[that actually work])

[Orion Poplawski]

On 02/18/2015 07:12 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:21:35 -0800
> ToddAndMargo  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Now that we have room on our Xfce Live DVD and
> > I have had a bunch of experience with the Live
> > DVD this week at customer sites, I would like to
> > humbly request the inclusion of the follow packages.
> > system-config-printer
> > I have to test printers all the time.  And no one
> > will upgrade to Linux if I can't show them their
> > printer will work.  And it is a lot easier to use
> > than 127.0.0.1:631 (tip: you need to give root
> > a password to get cups to work)
>
> Seems reasonable.

I too was pretty surprised how hard it was to configure a printer on a 
basic XFCE install.
> > firefox:
> > Need a full function browser.  The one that comes
> > with Live DVD burps on certain sites
>
> If everyone wants to go back to firefox, we can, but I don't think
> we should ship 2 browsers + stacks.
>
> Soon midori is going to webkit2/gtk3, so it might work better for
> more folks, and also we can drop webkitgtk which should save some
> room.
>
> Other folks thoughts?

I don't really make much use of spins/live/etc, but I'll say that I've 
tried to use midori on my last two XFCE installs and quickly had to 
switch to Firefox to get things working.  I'd be willing to give it a 
try again though if the engine is improved.

[ToddAndMargo]

On 02/20/2015 07:52 PM, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> > > system-config-printer
> > > I have to test printers all the time.  And no one
> > > will upgrade to Linux if I can't show them their
> > > printer will work.  And it is a lot easier to use
> > > than 127.0.0.1:631 (tip: you need to give root
> > > a password to get cups to work)
> >
> > Seems reasonable.
>
> I too was pretty surprised how hard it was to configure a printer on a
> basic XFCE install.

And if you can't get the customer's printer to work,
he looks at you like you are nuts

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:52:48 -0700
Orion Poplawski  wrote:
> I don't really make much use of spins/live/etc, but I'll say that
> I've tried to use midori on my last two XFCE installs and quickly had
> to switch to Firefox to get things working.  I'd be willing to give
> it a try again though if the engine is improved.

It's not changed yet. The next release will be gtk3/webkit2 only.

kevin