spins size changes

[Kevin Fenzi]

Greetings. 

We are coming up on Beta and thats when we start wanting to make sure
we hit our size target (700MB cd). 

Beta-TC4 Xfce is at 756M

The issues around perl have been cleaned up, so removing perl only
removes the xfce4-sensors-plugin (and all the perl modules). 

I went ahead and pushed a exo update to drop the perl update in it: 
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2013-7881/exo-0.10.2-3.fc19
karma very welcome. Hopefully we can push it stable before Beta freeze. 

With that update and removing perl and xfce4-sensors saves us ~40MB or
so on the uncompressed image (likely less on the iso). 

I also removed: 

foomatic-db-ppds
foomatic
(only used by really old printers)

stix-fonts
ibus-typing-booster
(large and not needed)

Those should save another ~40MB uncompressed (less on iso). 

Also, I did a: 
rm -f /usr/share/icons/HighContrast/icon-theme.cache
which the desktop folks are already doing. This cache can be
regenerated easily and we aren't using that icon theme by default. 
This saves ~105MB uncompressed. 

So, hopefully with all these we will drop the ~56MB we need. 

If not we will need to look at more savings. 

kevin

[Kevin Fenzi]

So, with those changes we are down to 716MB. 

Close, but still a bit to go. ;( 

Here's the top 100 packages by size: 

130071606 kernel
119258764 glibc-common
93482517 java-1.7.0-openjdk
50325854 xulrunner
45059774 webkitgtk
42611508 mesa-dri-drivers
40029215 libkkc-data
38911189 linux-firmware
32716609 libpinyin-data
31052001 firefox
28606886 libpurple
26810108 selinux-policy-doc
25208432 skkdic
25070917 libicu
24362451 python-libs
21735160 llvm-libs
21094325 cjkuni-uming-fonts
20986784 gutenprint
20377885 libabiword
19190690 binutils
18757034 grub2-efi
18198177 selinux-policy-targeted
17192973 ghostscript
17156598 wqy-zenhei-fonts
16736672 samba-libs
16442980 claws-mail
15935513 grub2-tools
14642369 iso-codes
14559867 coreutils
13938258 glibc
13641577 geany
13360023 gtk2
13060894 gtk3
12803865 nhn-nanum-gothic-fonts
12013394 poppler-data
11312284 link-grammar
11032827 desktop-backgrounds-compat
10802210 systemd
10170723 gnome-icon-theme
10145257 glib2
9684128 selinux-policy-devel
9623197 fedora-logos
9499721 alsa-firmware
9327535 cracklib-dicts
8970567 opencc
8718716 kernel-modules-extra
7626013 anaconda
7495234 util-linux
7314237 gstreamer1-plugins-good
7182128 js
6828498 gvfs
6680682 crash
6655640 seahorse
6649063 libhangul
6599724 GConf2
6186649 gnupg2
6146078 gnu-free-serif-fonts
5931736 gdb
5884088 initscripts
5883329 gparted
5845090 Thunar
5806382 grub2
5610554 gnome-themes-standard
5606555 zenity
5528994 yum
5475831 gtkmm30
5418256 python-babel
5402056 gtkmm24
5395171 dejavu-sans-fonts
5280421 midori
5239761 gstreamer-plugins-good
5145714 sssd
5122783 libchewing
5079794 nm-connection-editor
5056433 cups
5044263 orage
4959465 words
4893438 xkeyboard-config
4827354 system-config-printer-libs
4765107 man-pages
4737344 gstreamer-plugins-bad-free
4672501 libgnome
4656205 gnome-vfs2
4471855 setroubleshoot-plugins
4389400 urw-fonts
4359835 gstreamer-plugins-base
4342798 hwdata
4263698 gettext
4262761 gnome-keyring
4130980 vlgothic-fonts
4109323 shared-mime-info
4038797 NetworkManager
4001071 pygtk2
3911539 gstreamer1-plugins-base
3740349 libgnomeui
3682866 policycoreutils
3648696 bash
3631807 xfwm4-themes
3551198 pidgin
3500991 shadow-utils

There's a number of i18n things that we could drop, but I don't know
which of them are important and which are optional: 

40029215 libkkc-data
32716609 libpinyin-data
25208432 skkdic
25070917 libicu
21094325 cjkuni-uming-fonts
17156598 wqy-zenhei-fonts
14642369 iso-codes
12803865 nhn-nanum-gothic-fonts
8970567 opencc

Does anyone know? Or know who we could ask?

Other suggestions on items to drop welcome. 

kevin

[Richard]

Suggest removing Clawsmail. That gets close to 700.

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Samstag, den 11.05.2013, 18:36 -0430 schrieb Richard:
>  Suggest removing Clawsmail. That gets close to 700. 
What alternative would you suggest? We need a mail client.

Best regards,
Christoph

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 12:21:12 +0200
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Samstag, den 11.05.2013, 18:36 -0430 schrieb Richard:
>  > Suggest removing Clawsmail. That gets close to 700.
>  
>  What alternative would you suggest? We need a mail client. 
I guess he's suggesting that since many people use webmail anymore, we
don't need a actual mail client on the media? 

I'm not sure how true that is... but there are a lot of webmail folks. 

kevin

[Beartooth]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 12:21:12 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:

>  Am Samstag, den 11.05.2013, 18:36 -0430 schrieb Richard:
> > Suggest removing Clawsmail. That gets close to 700.
>  
>  What alternative would you suggest? We need a mail client. 
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
	There are still large numbers (millions) of users of Alpine, 
formerly Pine. Alpine has an Apache license, btw, and you install gets it 
on every .rpm distro I've tried.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I have precious (very precious!) little idea where up is.

[nomnex]

>  On Sat, 18 May 2013 15:56:34 +0000 (UTC)
>  Beartooth <beartooth(a)comcast.net&gt; wrote:
>
>  On Sun, 12 May 2013 12:21:12 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>  
>  > Am Samstag, den 11.05.2013, 18:36 -0430 schrieb Richard:
>  >> Suggest removing Clawsmail. That gets close to 700.
>  > 
>  > What alternative would you suggest? We need a mail client.
>  
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>  
>  	There are still large numbers (millions) of users of Alpine, 
>  formerly Pine. Alpine has an Apache license, btw, and you install
>  gets it on every .rpm distro I've tried. 

Would it make any size difference using Sylpheed? the package is a
little bit smaller than Claws mail, yet the environment is similar. I
think that GUI interface is a requisite.


-- 
nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt;
Freenode: nomnex
Registered Linux user #505281. Be counted at: http://linuxcounter.net

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Sonntag, den 19.05.2013, 07:50 +0900 schrieb nomnex:
>  > On Sat, 18 May 2013 15:56:34 +0000 (UTC)
>  > Beartooth <beartooth(a)comcast.net&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > On Sun, 12 May 2013 12:21:12 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>  > 
>  > > Am Samstag, den 11.05.2013, 18:36 -0430 schrieb Richard:
>  > >> Suggest removing Clawsmail. That gets close to 700.
>  > > 
>  > > What alternative would you suggest? We need a mail client.
>  > 
>  > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>  > 
>  > 	There are still large numbers (millions) of users of Alpine, 
>  > formerly Pine. Alpine has an Apache license, btw, and you install
>  > gets it on every .rpm distro I've tried.
>  
>  
>  Would it make any size difference using Sylpheed? the package is a
>  little bit smaller than Claws mail, yet the environment is similar.  
I think claws is more for power users and meets the target audience
better. Nevertheless I think we could consider omiting  some if not 

>  I think that GUI interface is a requisite. 
I totally agree. A desktop spin needs a graphical mail client.

Best regards,
Christoph

[Todd And Margo Chester]

On 05/10/2013 08:24 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  Greetings.
>
>  We are coming up on Beta and thats when we start wanting to make sure
>  we hit our size target (700MB cd). 
Hi Guys,

I know I don't get a vote, but would you please consider leaving
(or adding) gparted in/to the spin?  I use the live CD to work on
hard drives a lot at customer sites.

Many thanks,
-T

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

I think we don't need two internet browsers inside. Even webkit based
Midori is fine, and after directly install, everybody can install firefox
if it's needeed. So please, remove Firefox. That makes a huge place as
xulrunner is also will go. We can fill up with the empty space with other
apps. Like pulsecaster, turpial, and such.

Thanks,

Zoltan



2013/5/12 Todd And Margo Chester <toddandmargo(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  On 05/10/2013 08:24 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
> > Greetings.
> >
> > We are coming up on Beta and thats when we start wanting to make sure
> > we hit our size target (700MB cd).
> >
>
>  Hi Guys,
>
>  I know I don't get a vote, but would you please consider leaving
>  (or adding) gparted in/to the spin?  I use the live CD to work on
>  hard drives a lot at customer sites.
>
>  Many thanks,
>  -T
>
>  ______________________________**_________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
> https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/xfce<https://admin....



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PGP:  06853DF7

[Miro Hrončok]

+1

Dne 12.5.2013 06:51, Zoltan Hoppar napsal(a):
>  Hi,
>
>  I think we don't need two internet browsers inside. Even webkit based
>  Midori is fine, and after directly install, everybody can install
>  firefox if it's needeed. So please, remove Firefox. That makes a huge
>  place as xulrunner is also will go. We can fill up with the empty space
>  with other apps. Like pulsecaster, turpial, and such.
>
>  Thanks,
>
>  Zoltan
>
>
>
>  2013/5/12 Todd And Margo Chester <toddandmargo(a)gmail.com
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>
>      On 05/10/2013 08:24 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
>          Greetings.
>
>          We are coming up on Beta and thats when we start wanting to make
>          sure
>          we hit our size target (700MB cd).
>
>
>      Hi Guys,
>
>      I know I don't get a vote, but would you please consider leaving
>      (or adding) gparted in/to the spin?  I use the live CD to work on
>      hard drives a lot at customer sites.
>
>      Many thanks,
>      -T
>
>      _________________________________________________
>      xfce mailing list
>      xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      https://admin.fedoraproject.__org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>      <https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  PGP:  06853DF7
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>  
-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
Jabber: miro(a)hroncok.cz

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 13:27:01 +0200
Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  +1
>  
>  Dne 12.5.2013 06:51, Zoltan Hoppar napsal(a):
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > I think we don't need two internet browsers inside. Even webkit
>  > based Midori is fine, and after directly install, everybody can
>  > install firefox if it's needeed. So please, remove Firefox. That
>  > makes a huge place as xulrunner is also will go. We can fill up
>  > with the empty space with other apps. Like pulsecaster, turpial,
>  > and such. 
Well, I guess I would be ok trying this, but we might get some folks
upset about no firefox. ;) 

I doubt it would give us tons of space, looks like about 70MB
uncompressed, which will be much less compressed. It would probibly get
us under our target, but thats about it. 

kevin

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 10:29:52 -0600
Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Sun, 12 May 2013 13:27:01 +0200
>  Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > +1
>  > 
>  > Dne 12.5.2013 06:51, Zoltan Hoppar napsal(a):
>  > > Hi,
>  > >
>  > > I think we don't need two internet browsers inside. Even webkit
>  > > based Midori is fine, and after directly install, everybody can
>  > > install firefox if it's needeed. So please, remove Firefox. That
>  > > makes a huge place as xulrunner is also will go. We can fill up
>  > > with the empty space with other apps. Like pulsecaster, turpial,
>  > > and such.
>  
>  Well, I guess I would be ok trying this, but we might get some folks
>  upset about no firefox. ;) 
>  
>  I doubt it would give us tons of space, looks like about 70MB
>  uncompressed, which will be much less compressed. It would probibly
>  get us under our target, but thats about it.  
Wow. I just did one without @firefox and it's 636MB, so you are right,
it does save quite a lot of room. 

kevin

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Sonntag, den 12.05.2013, 11:02 -0600 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  On Sun, 12 May 2013 10:29:52 -0600
>  Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > On Sun, 12 May 2013 13:27:01 +0200
>  > Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > +1
>  > > 
>  > > Dne 12.5.2013 06:51, Zoltan Hoppar napsal(a):
>  > > > Hi,
>  > > >
>  > > > I think we don't need two internet browsers inside. Even webkit
>  > > > based Midori is fine, and after directly install, everybody can
>  > > > install firefox if it's needeed. So please, remove Firefox. That
>  > > > makes a huge place as xulrunner is also will go. We can fill up
>  > > > with the empty space with other apps. Like pulsecaster, turpial,
>  > > > and such.
>  > 
>  > Well, I guess I would be ok trying this, but we might get some folks
>  > upset about no firefox. ;) 
>  > 
>  > I doubt it would give us tons of space, looks like about 70MB
>  > uncompressed, which will be much less compressed. It would probibly
>  > get us under our target, but thats about it. 
>  
>  Wow. I just did one without @firefox and it's 636MB, so you are right,
>  it does save quite a lot of room. 
Can you cross-check without midori and lifearea? This should get us rid
of webkitgtk and we then can decide which browser to take.

Kind regards,
Christoph

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Well, we can kill the size really. My oldest dream, that we get rid of
Liferea, that is huge and bloated. Instead of that, I'd like to suggest
Naufrago! - what is the totally same at least from aspect, just it has
mostly only python, and pygtk dependencies. That makes for us more room.
The Fedora package is missing, but even the app can be run directly from
it's sh.

Naufrago!: http://sourceforge.net/projects/naufrago/?source=dlp

PS: Latest update is 2013.04.

I think this can be a good alternate to Liferea.

Zoltan


2013/5/12 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  Am Sonntag, den 12.05.2013, 11:02 -0600 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > On Sun, 12 May 2013 10:29:52 -0600
>  > Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > > On Sun, 12 May 2013 13:27:01 +0200
>  > > Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > +1
>  > > >
>  > > > Dne 12.5.2013 06:51, Zoltan Hoppar napsal(a):
>  > > > > Hi,
>  > > > >
>  > > > > I think we don't need two internet browsers inside. Even webkit
>  > > > > based Midori is fine, and after directly install, everybody can
>  > > > > install firefox if it's needeed. So please, remove Firefox. That
>  > > > > makes a huge place as xulrunner is also will go. We can fill up
>  > > > > with the empty space with other apps. Like pulsecaster, turpial,
>  > > > > and such.
>  > >
>  > > Well, I guess I would be ok trying this, but we might get some folks
>  > > upset about no firefox. ;)
>  > >
>  > > I doubt it would give us tons of space, looks like about 70MB
>  > > uncompressed, which will be much less compressed. It would probibly
>  > > get us under our target, but thats about it.
>  >
>  > Wow. I just did one without @firefox and it's 636MB, so you are right,
>  > it does save quite a lot of room.
>
>  Can you cross-check without midori and lifearea? This should get us rid
>  of webkitgtk and we then can decide which browser to take.
>
>  Kind regards,
>  Christoph
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>  


-- 
PGP:  06853DF7

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:48:03 +0200
Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Well, we can kill the size really. My oldest dream, that we get rid
> of
>  Liferea, that is huge and bloated. Instead of that, I'd like to
>  suggest Naufrago! - what is the totally same at least from aspect,
>  just it has mostly only python, and pygtk dependencies. That makes
>  for us more room. The Fedora package is missing, but even the app can
>  be run directly from it's sh.
>  
>  Naufrago!: http://sourceforge.net/projects/naufrago/?source=dlp
>  
>  PS: Latest update is 2013.04.
>  
>  I think this can be a good alternate to Liferea. 
Feel free to package it. We don't want to ship non packaged stuff. 

:)

kevin

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Sonntag, den 12.05.2013, 20:48 +0200 schrieb Zoltan Hoppar:
>  Well, we can kill the size really. My oldest dream, that we get rid
> of
>  Liferea, that is huge and bloated. Instead of that, I'd like to
>  suggest Naufrago! - what is the totally same at least from aspect,
>  just it has mostly only python, and pygtk dependencies.  
But it also requires webkit through pywebkitgtk, so I doubt it's any
difference to liferea.

Best regards,
Christoph

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 19:38:26 +0200
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  > Wow. I just did one without @firefox and it's 636MB, so you
> are
>  > right, it does save quite a lot of room.
>  
>  Can you cross-check without midori and lifearea? This should get us
>  rid of webkitgtk and we then can decide which browser to take. 
Sure. With removing lifrea/midori/webkitgtk we get: 697MB (so, just
barely under size). 

And for good measure, one with midori and firefox both kept, but java
removed is: 711MB. So, it doesn't get us enough space by itself. 

My take: 

If we remove firefox some people will be upset their default/normal
browser isn't there. However, midori is the Xfce browser, and making it
the only one would mean more people would try it out and possibly start
using it more. 

kevin

[Kevin Fenzi]

ok. I dropped firefox. ;) 

Rationale: 

* midori is the Xfce browser

* midori should be at least sufficent for browsing from the live media
  even for people who don't like it full time. 

* Folks can install firefox after they install from media easily. 

* This gives us a fair bit of room so we don't have to scramble to fix
  things for a while, while still fitting on a 700mb media. 

* We could look at adding some more carefully selected things we are
  missing. Suggestions? (note that we don't want to pull in perl or
  xulrunner again). 

* If there's too much negative feedback we can revert this and drop
  midori/webkitgtk (which will put us very very close to over again,
  but should just barely fit). 

kevin

[Todd And Margo Chester]

On 05/13/2013 09:17 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  ok. I dropped firefox.;) 
Hi Kevin,

For those of us who won't remember "midori", please
make sure you give us an easily recognizable icon.
Other than that, no problem.

-T

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 10:01:35 -0700
Todd And Margo Chester <toddandmargo(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 05/13/2013 09:17 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  > ok. I dropped firefox.;)
>  
>  Hi Kevin,
>  
>  For those of us who won't remember "midori", please
>  make sure you give us an easily recognizable icon.
>  Other than that, no problem. 
The default web browser icon on the desktop should launch midori. 

If it doesn't please let me know. 

kevin

[Zoltan Hoppar]

I'd like to suggest the following applications:

- Turpial
- Pulsecaster (it's not a must)
- Gnome font viewer, to install, view and handle fonts

+1: I'd like to know that the drop-down terminal will be available? Eg.
http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/how-to-use-xfce4-terminal-06x-as-drop.html

Thanks,

Zoltan


2013/5/13 Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt;

>  ok. I dropped firefox. ;)
>
>  Rationale:
>
>  * midori is the Xfce browser
>
>  * midori should be at least sufficent for browsing from the live media
>    even for people who don't like it full time.
>
>  * Folks can install firefox after they install from media easily.
>
>  * This gives us a fair bit of room so we don't have to scramble to fix
>    things for a while, while still fitting on a 700mb media.
>
>  * We could look at adding some more carefully selected things we are
>    missing. Suggestions? (note that we don't want to pull in perl or
>    xulrunner again).
>
>  * If there's too much negative feedback we can revert this and drop
>    midori/webkitgtk (which will put us very very close to over again,
>    but should just barely fit).
>
>  kevin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>  


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PGP:  06853DF7

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 18:41:36 +0200
Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  I'd like to suggest the following applications:
>  
>  - Turpial 
That pulls in some other packages, but it's still pretty small. 

>  - Pulsecaster (it's not a must) 
this is small and doesn't seem to pull much off hand. 

>  - Gnome font viewer, to install, view and handle fonts 
Good idea. 
 
>  +1: I'd like to know that the drop-down terminal will be
> available?
>  Eg.
>  http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/how-to-use-xfce4-terminal-06x-as-drop.html 
yes, I have enabled it as soon as it landed. ;) 

kevin

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

I'd like to also add the following apps:

- PnMixer for sound management (500 k), as PulseAudio has never will have
tray app
- epdfview (407 k)
- atop (100 k) - not a must, but very versatile, multifunctional top-like
app
- gnote (if it's not added - 3 megs)
 - As we have Asunder, maybe good idea to have Easytag (5 megs), or Tagtool
(870k)
- Fpm2 - lightweight password manager (362 k)
- mtpaint as image editor, because gimp is too big (570 k, no deps, pygtk)

Thanks,

Zoltan


2013/5/19 Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt;

>  On Sun, 19 May 2013 18:41:36 +0200
>  Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
>  > I'd like to suggest the following applications:
>  >
>  > - Turpial
>
>  That pulls in some other packages, but it's still pretty small.
>
>  > - Pulsecaster (it's not a must)
>
>  this is small and doesn't seem to pull much off hand.
>
>  > - Gnome font viewer, to install, view and handle fonts
>
>  Good idea.
>
>  > +1: I'd like to know that the drop-down terminal will be available?
>  > Eg.
>  >
>  http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/how-to-use-xfce4-terminal-06x-as-drop.html
>
>  yes, I have enabled it as soon as it landed. ;)
>
>  kevin
>  


-- 
PGP:  06853DF7

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 21:50:03 +0200
Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hi,
>  
>  I'd like to also add the following apps:
>  
>  - PnMixer for sound management (500 k), as PulseAudio has never will
>  have tray app 
What advantages does this have over xfce4-mixer? 

>  - epdfview (407 k) 
I'm fine with that... we need a pdf viewer. I thought we had one of the
other ones, but I can't see it anymore. ;( 

>  - atop (100 k) - not a must, but very versatile, multifunctional
>  top-like app 
I guess we could... it's small. 

>  - gnote (if it's not added - 3 megs) 
I suppose. 

>   - As we have Asunder, maybe good idea to have Easytag (5 megs), or
>  Tagtool (870k) 
How many folks are going to use live media to rip music I wonder? 

>  - Fpm2 - lightweight password manager (362 k) 
I still prefer keepassx, but since thats QT this is probibly better. 

>  - mtpaint as image editor, because gimp is too big (570 k, no deps,
>  pygtk) 
This doesn't seem super capable, but I suppose... 

I'll wait for more feedback before commiting anything. 

>  Thanks,
>  
>  Zoltan 
kevin

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Montag, den 20.05.2013, 21:50 +0200 schrieb Zoltan Hoppar:

>  I'd like to also add the following apps:
>  
>  
>  - PnMixer for sound management (500 k), as PulseAudio has never will
>  have tray app 
I don't see what it offers over xfce4-mixer and it's plugin. ANd it's
crashing for people with more than one soundcard or USB soundcards.

>  - epdfview (407 k) 
Dead upstream, that's why we switched to evince-gtk.

>  - atop (100 k) - not a must, but very versatile, multifunctional
>  top-like app 
I like this on, not sure if we should focus on console apps on a desktop
spin.

>  - gnote (if it's not added - 3 megs) 
Dead upstream, I still maintain and use it in the LXDE spin, but for
Xfce we should IHMO stick to the xfce4-notes-plugin.

>  - As we have Asunder, maybe good idea to have Easytag (5 megs), or
>  Tagtool (870k) 
We already have this in thunar through the thunar-media-tags-plugin and
thunar-bulk-rename (which can deal with tags, too).

>  - Fpm2 - lightweight password manager (362 k) 
Never tried it.

>  - mtpaint as image editor, because gimp is too big (570 k, no deps,
>  pygtk) 
Not really usefull IHMO.

Thanks for your suggestions. I think we should focus on bringing the
best of *Xfce*, but I am looking forward to hear more opinions.

Best regards,
Christoph

[Zoltan Hoppar]

As I remember, when you are newly start the fresh installed fedora xfce
spin system (even in F18), there is no tray volume controller application.
I didn't know that how can I restore it or it's exisiting at all, so
fetched first volumeicon (what is crashed all the time, was in bugzilla
many times), then pnmixer filled my needs until now - but removed it
immediatelly now. Why? Because I have found an solution between the
plugins, and that provides the missing tray applet part for the
xfce4-mixer. So the way to have the tray app is, rclick on the tray, panel,
add new plugin, volume - and pops up an mixer app. Problem solved, so
forget my pnmixer suggestion, but we need this to be turned on the spin if
possible. HTH for other guys too.

For other apps: I tried to gather and suggest small, but nice solutions, as
we have low amount of space on disc - yet would be great to have more
complete desktop. Sadly read, that many apps has dead upstream, and some
has no reason to keep it.
I have to agree about the evince-gtk. Yet, I think we need the gnome font
viewer, I had really missed it, and after my knowledge there is no other
tiny app where you can handle and install fonts too through gui. But these
are just my suggestions, and impressions about what should we include.

 And yes - it would be nice to hear other guys opinions either. Thx
Christoph, and Kevin.



2013/5/20 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  Am Montag, den 20.05.2013, 21:50 +0200 schrieb Zoltan Hoppar:
>
>  > I'd like to also add the following apps:
>  >
>  >
>  > - PnMixer for sound management (500 k), as PulseAudio has never will
>  > have tray app
>
>  I don't see what it offers over xfce4-mixer and it's plugin. ANd it's
>  crashing for people with more than one soundcard or USB soundcards.
>
>  > - epdfview (407 k)
>
>  Dead upstream, that's why we switched to evince-gtk.
>
>  > - atop (100 k) - not a must, but very versatile, multifunctional
>  > top-like app
>
>  I like this on, not sure if we should focus on console apps on a desktop
>  spin.
>
>  > - gnote (if it's not added - 3 megs)
>
>  Dead upstream, I still maintain and use it in the LXDE spin, but for
>  Xfce we should IHMO stick to the xfce4-notes-plugin.
>
>  > - As we have Asunder, maybe good idea to have Easytag (5 megs), or
>  > Tagtool (870k)
>
>  We already have this in thunar through the thunar-media-tags-plugin and
>  thunar-bulk-rename (which can deal with tags, too).
>
>  > - Fpm2 - lightweight password manager (362 k)
>
>  Never tried it.
>
>  > - mtpaint as image editor, because gimp is too big (570 k, no deps,
>  > pygtk)
>
>  Not really usefull IHMO.
>
>  Thanks for your suggestions. I think we should focus on bringing the
>  best of *Xfce*, but I am looking forward to hear more opinions.
>
>  Best regards,
>  Christoph
>
>
>  

-- 
PGP:  06853DF7

[nomnex]

>  On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:59:21 +0200
>  Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
>  For other apps: I tried to gather and suggest small, but nice
>  solutions, as we have low amount of space on disc - yet would be
>  great to have more complete desktop. Sadly read, that many apps has
>  dead upstream, and some has no reason to keep it.
>  I have to agree about the evince-gtk. Yet, I think we need the gnome
>  font viewer, I had really missed it, and after my knowledge there is
>  no other tiny app where you can handle and install fonts too through
>  gui. But these are just my suggestions, and impressions about what
>  should we include.
>  
>   And yes - it would be nice to hear other guys opinions either. Thx
>  Christoph, and Kevin. 
There is nothing personal Zoltanh, but as Christoph as commented, I
would rather use a XFCE Spin with a minimum set of "user applications".

mpaint, gnote, turpial, easyteag, Fpm2, etc. this is all unnecessary
clutter in my opinion.

a terminal, a mail client, an audio player, a video players, a web
browser, a PDF reader, etc. those are the basics anyone expect to see,
after a fresh install.

The "complete desktop experience" in a lightweight DE Spin, should be
limited to the basics in my opinion.

Note: I could not come up with a better term than "user applications".





-- 
nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt;
Freenode: nomnex
Registered Linux user #505281. Be counted at: http://linuxcounter.net

[nomnex]

>  On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:04:09 +0900
>  nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  There is nothing personal [Zoltanh] Zoltan*.  
-- 
nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt;
Freenode: nomnex
Registered Linux user #505281. Be counted at: http://linuxcounter.net

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hey Nomnex,

No problem, we are a community, we are different, and that's a good thing.
We couldn't have such spin, that covers everything, and stays under 700 M.
But maybe we can find the golden middle path, that everybody needs.

Zoltan


2013/5/21 nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  > On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:04:09 +0900
>  > nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > There is nothing personal [Zoltanh] Zoltan*.
>
>  --
>  nomnex <nomnex(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  Freenode: nomnex
>  Registered Linux user #505281. Be counted at: http://linuxcounter.net
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>  


-- 
PGP:  06853DF7

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:18:20 +0200
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

...snip...

>  > - epdfview (407 k)
>  
>  Dead upstream, that's why we switched to evince-gtk. 
evince-gtk? doesn't seem to exist... do you mean just 'evince' ? 
(since the nautilus stuff got split out to evince-nautilus)

I suppose zathura is too geeky?

kevin

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Montag, den 20.05.2013, 16:25 -0600 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:18:20 +0200
>  Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  ...snip...
>  
>  > > - epdfview (407 k)
>  > 
>  > Dead upstream, that's why we switched to evince-gtk.
>  
>  evince-gtk? doesn't seem to exist... do you mean just 'evince' ? 
>  (since the nautilus stuff got split out to evince-nautilus) 
Maybe I confused it with NetworkManager-gtk. I thought there was
something that only required gtk/dconf. Correct?

>  I suppose zathura is too geeky? 
Yes, not everybody knows VI shortcuts.

Best regards,
Christoph

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 17:29:41 -0700
Todd And Margo Chester <toddandmargo(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 05/10/2013 08:24 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  > Greetings.
>  >
>  > We are coming up on Beta and thats when we start wanting to make
>  > sure we hit our size target (700MB cd).
>  
>  Hi Guys,
>  
>  I know I don't get a vote, but would you please consider leaving
>  (or adding) gparted in/to the spin?  I use the live CD to work on
>  hard drives a lot at customer sites. 
I added it when you asked and it's still there. It's small, so removing
it wouldn't help us much anyhow. ;) 

kevin

[Todd And Margo Chester]

On 05/12/2013 09:28 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  On Sat, 11 May 2013 17:29:41 -0700
>  Todd And Margo Chester <toddandmargo(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
> > On 05/10/2013 08:24 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> >> Greetings.
> >>
> >> We are coming up on Beta and thats when we start wanting to make
> >> sure we hit our size target (700MB cd).
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > I know I don't get a vote, but would you please consider leaving
> > (or adding) gparted in/to the spin?  I use the live CD to work on
> > hard drives a lot at customer sites.
>
>  I added it when you asked and it's still there. It's small, so removing
>  it wouldn't help us much anyhow. ;)
>
>  kevin 
Thank you!