What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
Thanks, Mukundan.
[1] https://bluesabre.org/2018/07/01/xubuntu-development-update-july-2018/
Maybe file a self contained change proposal? I'm in for an early update, but please don't do it without the change. Change is good for notifying plenty of people and also makes sure the info gets into release notes, etc.
(Sorry if top posting, I'm trying Hyperkitty web interface.)
On 07/08/2018 04:55 AM, Miro Hrončok wrote:
Maybe file a self contained change proposal? I'm in for an early update, but please don't do it without the change. Change is good for notifying plenty of people and also makes sure the info gets into release notes, etc.
(Sorry if top posting, I'm trying Hyperkitty web interface.)
That's a good point. If we go ahead with this, I will submit a contained change proposal.
It sounds good to me. Would also be nice if possible to have a module with latest dev versions for Fedora 28.
Mukundan Ragavan wrote on 07/08/18 02:46:
What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
Thanks, Mukundan.
[1] https://bluesabre.org/2018/07/01/xubuntu-development-update-july-2018/
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On 07/09/2018 06:49 AM, Aleksandar Kostadinov wrote:
It sounds good to me. Would also be nice if possible to have a module with latest dev versions for Fedora 28.
I already have a COPR[1] that does the exact same thing. I have to bring it up-to-date though ...
[1] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/nonamedotc/xfce-414/
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 18:30:43 -0400 Mukundan Ragavan nonamedotc@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/09/2018 06:49 AM, Aleksandar Kostadinov wrote:
It sounds good to me. Would also be nice if possible to have a module with latest dev versions for Fedora 28.
I already have a COPR[1] that does the exact same thing. I have to bring it up-to-date though ...
[1] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/nonamedotc/xfce-414/
could you add ppc64le to arches in copr (for f28+)? /me runs XFCE on Power9 hw and is ready to test it.
Dan
On 07/08/2018 02:46 AM, Mukundan Ragavan wrote:
What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
Well, when is xfce 4.13 supposed to become stable?
It's quite okay to have a development version for a couple of months in rawhide, but generally you don't want to end up with unstable versions of software in stable releases.
- Panu -
xfce 4.13.x are development releases geared towards xfce-4.14 stable release. Xfce is a "release when ready" DE. The roadmap [1] specifies what the status of each sub-project is but does not give definitive dates of release.
Having said that, 4.13 is, in my experience, quite stable. They are labeled development releases but changes in Xfce do not tend to be drastic and hence my proposal to update.
On 07/10/2018 01:34 AM, Mukundan Ragavan wrote:
xfce 4.13.x are development releases geared towards xfce-4.14 stable release. Xfce is a "release when ready" DE. The roadmap [1] specifies what the status of each sub-project is but does not give definitive dates of release.
Having said that, 4.13 is, in my experience, quite stable. They are labeled development releases but changes in Xfce do not tend to be drastic and hence my proposal to update.
Perceived stability is just one thing. There are other factors like library ABI/API and support issues. If you plan on exposing development versions to stable Fedora releases you should at the very least ask for upstream blessing for this, and if they tell you no, honor that.
- Panu -
On 07/07/2018 04:46 PM, Mukundan Ragavan wrote:
What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
I'm not sure it's the best idea since we have no idea when 4.14 will ever be released. That said, the 4.13.x stuff does seem to be pretty stable, and there's a lot of people who would like the new features...
So, I won't stand in the way if folks would like to go ahead here.
kevin
On 13 July 2018 at 22:12, Kevin Fenzi kevin@scrye.com wrote:
On 07/07/2018 04:46 PM, Mukundan Ragavan wrote:
What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
I'm not sure it's the best idea since we have no idea when 4.14 will ever be released. That said, the 4.13.x stuff does seem to be pretty stable, and there's a lot of people who would like the new features...
So, I won't stand in the way if folks would like to go ahead here.
I wonder if making these 'modules' would work better. That way a person could choose to stay on the 4.12 stream until 4.14 came out and 4.13 if they are adventurous?
sure. if someone wants to take the lead with modules.
However, I already maintain (well, sort of) a COPR that people can use if they want to. I personally have on interest (or time now) to learn and implement modules.
Although we do not know when 4.14 will be out officially, we do know that 4.13 is not disruptive from a user perspective. I am sure upstream would appreciate some testing from a wider user base as well (yes, I know we do not want to push unstable stuff to our user base. But, this is not "unstable").
my two cents. :)
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 12:28 AM, Mukundan Ragavan nonamedotc@gmail.com wrote:
sure. if someone wants to take the lead with modules.
However, I already maintain (well, sort of) a COPR that people can use if they want to. I personally have on interest (or time now) to learn and implement modules.
Although we do not know when 4.14 will be out officially, we do know that 4.13 is not disruptive from a user perspective. I am sure upstream would appreciate some testing from a wider user base as well (yes, I know we do not want to push unstable stuff to our user base. But, this is not "unstable").
my two cents. :)
Then I think it boils down to Fedora's First principle, encouraging us to follow upstream's latest unless we can't commit to the 13 month support period of releases. Xfce is very stable, or at least it has never let me down in this area. If you can commit to maintaining 4.13 updates once rawhide turns into a Fedora release then I will certainly not object :)
Dridi
On 07/15/2018 06:13 AM, Dridi Boukelmoune wrote:
If you can commit to maintaining 4.13 updates once rawhide turns into a Fedora release then I will certainly not object :)
I believe that is the primary point of my "request for comments". :)
We will be closer to upstream and makes it easier to pull upstream patches.
On 07/14/2018 08:16 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On 13 July 2018 at 22:12, Kevin Fenzi kevin@scrye.com wrote:
On 07/07/2018 04:46 PM, Mukundan Ragavan wrote:
What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
I'm not sure it's the best idea since we have no idea when 4.14 will ever be released. That said, the 4.13.x stuff does seem to be pretty stable, and there's a lot of people who would like the new features...
So, I won't stand in the way if folks would like to go ahead here.
I wonder if making these 'modules' would work better. That way a person could choose to stay on the 4.12 stream until 4.14 came out and 4.13 if they are adventurous?
I think that might work. We could make a 4.13 module that overrides the 4.12 ones in the base repos. However, it would mean you would have to install with 4.12 and enable the module to get 4.13, I don't think there's any way to make media from modules.
Also, dnfdragora would need to know how to deal with modules, as I don't think it currently does and we ship it on the spin.
I'm not sure how much nicer a module is from a copr in the end though... you have to enable either one and update from it.
kevin
On 07/17/2018 06:34 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
I'm not sure how much nicer a module is from a copr in the end though... you have to enable either one and update from it.
Having thought about this some more is using modules for core DE components a good idea? Are users going to run multiple versions? Downgrading packages installed from COPR should be straight forward as well.
To circle back to the primary topic - is the consensus not updating to 4.13 on rawhide?
On 07/07/2018 04:46 PM, Mukundan Ragavan wrote:
What does everyone on this list think about updating xfce components to xfce 4.13.x versions in rawhide and consequently, Fedora 29?
As far as I can tell, these are quite stable although they are labeled as development versions. Xubuntu also seems to moving in that general direction [1].
The biggest advantage is that we will move most of the components to GTK-3. I have not seen too many issues based on my COPR (As an aside, I will update several packages there in the coming week).
Please comment. Who is for and against moving early to Xfce 4.13.x? I would like to move forward only if we consensus.
Thanks, Mukundan.
Brave would be sweet. It has a smaller foot print than Firefox. And with Firefox's current growing pains, it is more stable. Comes with build in ad blocking too. I use it whenever gives me issues.
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Aleksandar Kostadinov -
Dan Horák -
Dridi Boukelmoune -
Kevin Fenzi -
Miro Hrončok -
Mukundan Ragavan -
Panu Matilainen -
Stephen John Smoogen -
ToddAndMargo