[modularity] Modularity Team Meeting Summary/Minutes for 2019-12-03
by Langdon White
Minutes:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-12-03/modularity....
Minutes (text):
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-12-03/modularity....
Log:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-12-03/modularity....
==========================================
#fedora-meeting-3: Modularity Team Meeting
==========================================
Meeting started by langdon at 15:02:49 UTC. The full logs are available
at
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-12-03/modularity....
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* Roll Call (langdon, 15:03:23)
* agenda setting (langdon, 15:04:59)
* starting with https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1241
(langdon, 15:09:03)
* then moving to tickets newest to oldest (langdon, 15:09:14)
* https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1241 : "Automatically
determine build order and build clusters instead of making people
figure them out" (langdon, 15:09:50)
* ACTION: Son_Goku to write up a use-case doc and attach it to
https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1241 (langdon, 15:30:21)
* "RFC: modularity simplified" (langdon, 15:34:15)
* ACTION: langdon to setup meeting to discuss "RFC: modularity
simplified"
(
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.o...
)
for later this week (langdon, 15:35:06)
* https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165 (langdon, 15:38:15)
* ACTION: langdon to file a ticket about writing up/proposing
"everything for reference repo" thingy (langdon, 15:52:42)
* ACTION: mbooth to add a comment to
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165 with help (langdon,
16:02:23)
* ACTION: langdon to add comment to
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165 pointing at the long term fix
ticket (langdon, 16:02:39)
* open floor (langdon, 16:02:50)
Meeting ended at 16:04:14 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* Son_Goku to write up a use-case doc and attach it to
https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1241
* langdon to setup meeting to discuss "RFC: modularity simplified"
(
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.o...
)
for later this week
* langdon to file a ticket about writing up/proposing "everything for
reference repo" thingy
* mbooth to add a comment to https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165 with
help
* langdon to add comment to https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165
pointing at the long term fix ticket
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* langdon
* langdon to setup meeting to discuss "RFC: modularity simplified"
(
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.o...
)
for later this week
* langdon to file a ticket about writing up/proposing "everything for
reference repo" thingy
* langdon to add comment to https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165
pointing at the long term fix ticket
* mbooth
* mbooth to add a comment to https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/165
with help
* Son_Goku
* Son_Goku to write up a use-case doc and attach it to
https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1241
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* Son_Goku (101)
* langdon (87)
* contyk (57)
* sgallagh (52)
* zodbot (16)
* mbooth (8)
* ignatenkobrain (2)
* asamalik (1)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
4 years, 4 months
Agenda for Tuesday's Modularity Working Group Meeting (YYYY-MM-DD)
by Nils Philippsen
(Sorry for sending this so late.)
Find below a list of topics which are planned to be discussed in the
Fedora Modularity Working Group meeting on Tuesday at 15:00 UTC in
#fedora-meeting-3 on irc.freenode.net.
To find out when this is in your local time zone, check the Fedora
Calendar (if you've set it and are logged in):
https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/modularity/#m5249
Alternatively, to convert UTC to your local time zone, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d 'Tuesday 15:00 UTC'
Links to all issues below can be found at:
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
= Discussed and Voted =
Modularity WG Charter Review
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/118
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/modularity_wg/modularity_wg.2018-...
(+3, 0, -0)
We'll skip the WG meetings scheduled for 2018-12-25 and 2019-01-01
because many people are absent.
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/modularity_wg/modularity_wg.2018-...
(+3, 0, -0)
= Followups =
#topic #112 Discussion: Module lifecycles
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/112
#topic #115 Discussion: Stream branch ownership for packages & modules
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/115
= New business =
#topic #119 Modularity WG Charter (contd.)
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/119
= Open Floor =
For more complete details, please visit each individual
issue. The report of the agenda items can be found at
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can file a new
issue at https://pagure.io/modularity/issues, or bring it up at the end
of the meeting during the open floor topic. Note that the meeting is
one hour long and issues we don't get around to discussing may be
deferred until the following meeting.
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to
Software Engineer purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither
Red Hat Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011
5 years, 4 months
Agenda for Tuesday's Modularity Working Group Meeting (2019-01-22)
by Nils Philippsen
Sorry that this one's a little late, scheduling snafu...
Find below a list of topics which are planned to be discussed in the
Fedora Modularity Working Group meeting on Tuesday at 15:00 UTC in
#fedora-meeting-3 on irc.freenode.net.
To find out when this is in your local time zone, check the Fedora
Calendar (if you've set it and are logged in):
https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/modularity/#m5249
Alternatively, to convert UTC to your local time zone, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d 'Tuesday 15:00 UTC'
Links to all issues below can be found at:
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
= Discussed and Voted =
Modularity WG Charter (contd.)
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/119
DECISION (+4, 0, -0)
= Followups =
#topic #112 Discussion: Module lifecycles
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/112
.modularity 112
#link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2027
#topic #115 Discussion: Stream branch ownership for packages & modules
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/115
.modularity 115
#link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2028
= New business =
N/A
= Open Floor =
For more complete details, please visit each individual
issue. The report of the agenda items can be found at
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can file a new
issue at https://pagure.io/modularity/issues, or bring it up at the end
of the meeting during the open floor topic. Note that the meeting is
one hour long and issues we don't get around to discussing may be
deferred until the following meeting.
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to
Software Engineer purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither
Red Hat Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011
5 years, 3 months
Agenda for Tuesday's Modularity Team Meeting (2019-01-29)
by Nils Philippsen
Find below a list of topics which are planned to be discussed in the
Fedora Modularity Team meeting on Tuesday at 15:00 UTC in
#fedora-meeting-3 on irc.freenode.net.
To find out when this is in your local time zone, check the Fedora
Calendar (if you've set it and are logged in):
https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/modularity/#m5249
Alternatively, to convert UTC to your local time zone, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d 'Tuesday 15:00 UTC'
Links to all issues below can be found at:
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
= Discussed and Voted =
Modularity WG Charter (contd.)
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/119
DECISION (+4, 0, -0)
= Followups =
#topic #112 Discussion: Module lifecycles
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/112
.modularity 112
#link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2027
#topic #115 Discussion: Stream branch ownership for packages & modules
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/115
.modularity 115
#link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2028
= New business =
N/A
= Open Floor =
For more complete details, please visit each individual
issue. The report of the agenda items can be found at
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can file a new
issue at https://pagure.io/modularity/issues, or bring it up at the end
of the meeting during the open floor topic. Note that the meeting is
one hour long and issues we don't get around to discussing may be
deferred until the following meeting.
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to
Software Engineer purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither
Red Hat Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011
5 years, 2 months
Re: What are the benefits of default modular streams over non-modular packages?
by John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, November 15, 2019 6:03:40 AM MST Petr Pisar wrote:
> You answered yourself: "default modular streams are planned to deliver
> the exact same experience as non-modular packages." If they provide the
> same experience, they provide the same set of benefits. Hence there
> cannot be any "benefits of default modular streams over non-modular
> packages". Q.E.D.
>
> If you want a disuccion, then you should not have stripped all
> modularity features and than ask what are the benefits of modularity
> without modularity.
I believe that was precisely Miro's point. If there are no inherent benefits
to default modular streams, why should we have "default streams" instead of
simply having non-modular packages?
--
John M. Harris, Jr.
Splentity
4 years, 5 months
Re: Modularity and the system-upgrade path
by Nicolas Mailhot
Le samedi 16 novembre 2019 à 09:35 +0100, Lukas Ruzicka a écrit :
>
>
> > Either the strategy should be:
> >
> > "We offer alternate Perl versions for containers etc. they conflict
> > with the
> > default Perl version and with the non-modular apps. That is known
> > and accepted."
That won't work.
You *can* ship modular components as alternatives
You *can* *not* ship modular components that directly compete with non-
modular as defaults, because the maintainer of non modular will have
made the effort to integrate with the rest of the distro, and not only
the maintainer of the modular content won't have made this effort, but
he will offload the integration problems *he* created to the maintainer
of the default non modular version
The root reason of the current mess is that modular was allowed to
override things without owning the problems that created.
Modular should *not* override anything by default in dep resolution.
Dep resolution *may* use modular preferences as hints, but those hints
should be weak at best, and be ignored by the dep resolver as soon as
they conflict with dep graph resolution.
And yes that means maintainers of modular things will get the rug
pulled under them whenever the default stream changes in incompatible
ways. Tough luck. The only reliable way we have to coordinate Fedora
activity is this default stream.
Regards,
--
Nicolas Mailhot
4 years, 5 months
Re: disabling yum modular repos by default?
by Jun Aruga (he / him)
> "No fedora-repos-modular in default installation" ?
I feel that's a better way than disabling (enabled=0) module repos by default.
/etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-modular.repo
/etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-updates-modular.repo
#enabled=1
enabled=0
For people who want to use the modularity, once they install the RPM
package fedora-repos-modular, they can install the modules without the
dnf command line option to enable the module repos.
```
$ sudo dnf install fedora-repos-modular
$ sudo dnf install <modules/*>
```
Jun
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 10:42 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
<zbyszek(a)in.waw.pl> wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 12:21:51PM +0800, Jens-Ulrik Petersen wrote:
> > Thanks for all the helpful comments and feedback,
> > though more is still welcome of course.
> > So I am leaning now towards not installing fedora-repos-modular by default
> > (rather than disabling the modular repos by default): also for upgrade
> > compatibility.
> >
> > I have started a Change proposal draft, which I think should be ready soon,
> > with current working title *"Turn off modular dnf repos by default"*.
> > Perhaps *"No default fedora-repos-modular"* would be more precise.
> > Or any better suggestions (that don't sound like modularity is being
> > removed)?
>
> "No fedora-repos-modular in default installation" ?
>
> > I think the actual work (PR's) required is not huge,
> > but if someone is particularly keen to join the effort let me know.
>
> The discussion is the work ;)
>
> Zbyszek
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jun | He - Him | Timezone: UTC+1 or 2, Czech Republic
See <https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/czech-republic-prague-to-utc> for
the timezone.
11 months, 3 weeks
[modularity] modularity team meeting minutes (Oct. 08, 2019)
by Langdon White
Minutes:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-10-08/modularity....
Minutes (text):
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-10-08/modularity....
Log:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-10-08/modularity....
==========================================
#fedora-meeting-3: Modularity Team Meeting
==========================================
Meeting started by langdon at 15:08:18 UTC. The full logs are available
at
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-3/2019-10-08/modularity....
Meeting summary
---------------
* roll call (langdon, 15:08:37)
* agenda (langdon, 15:10:08)
* update on ursa prime (langdon, 15:10:16)
* update on libmodulemd (langdon, 15:11:23)
* update on ursa prime (langdon, 15:12:33)
* Ursa Prime will be deployed to production next Tuesday (sgallagh,
15:21:41)
* Ursa Prime configuration will initially be limited to Rawhide/F32
and EPEL8[-playground] buildroots (sgallagh, 15:22:08)
* The remaining tasks to be done for Ursa Prime: 1) modify the
f32/rawhide platform.yaml record in MBS to enable this feature, 2)
set up a repo compose based on the defaults+overrides inputs, 3)
configure koji tags and targets so that the rawhide target is a
merged repo containing the modular and non-modular content (contyk,
15:24:19)
* ACTION: contyk and sgallagh to work with nirik to finish those three
tasks. (sgallagh, 15:25:53)
* LINK:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/six-of-one--half-a-dozen-of-the-other
(langdon, 15:29:24)
* libmodulemd update (langdon, 15:29:33)
* LINK: https://github.com/fedora-modularity/libmodulemd/issues/368
(sgallagh, 15:31:20)
* ACTION: sgallagh to investigate libmodulemd 2.x migration for COPR
(sgallagh, 15:39:10)
* slow migration away from libmodulemd 1.x is resulting in increasing
maintenance burden (sgallagh, 15:39:51)
* Tagging Module Defaults into non-modular repo (sgallagh, 15:41:37)
* AGREED: We disagree with merging default streams into the main repo
as non-modular packages. Our approach is to implement a mechanism of
following default streams to give people the experience they want.
(+4 0 -0) (asamalik, 16:07:40)
Meeting ended at 16:11:58 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* contyk and sgallagh to work with nirik to finish those three tasks.
* sgallagh to investigate libmodulemd 2.x migration for COPR
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* contyk
* contyk and sgallagh to work with nirik to finish those three tasks.
* sgallagh
* contyk and sgallagh to work with nirik to finish those three tasks.
* sgallagh to investigate libmodulemd 2.x migration for COPR
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* sgallagh (87)
* langdon (77)
* asamalik (53)
* contyk (42)
* zodbot (13)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
4 years, 6 months
Agenda for Tuesday's Modularity Working Group Meeting (2018-12-03)
by Nils Philippsen
Find below a list of topics which are planned to be discussed in the
Fedora Modularity Working Group meeting on Tuesday at 15:00 UTC in
#fedora-meeting-3 on irc.freenode.net.
To find out when this is in your local time zone, check the Fedora
Calendar (if you've set it and are logged in):
https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/modularity/#m5249
Alternatively, to convert UTC to your local time zone, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d 'Tuesday 15:00 UTC'
Links to all issues below can be found at:
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
= Discussed and Voted =
#108 How do we keep rawhide sane?
https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/108
Voted in the meeting:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/modularity_wg/modularity_wg.2018-...
If users don't specify a stream, they will get the current default one
which, on upgrade of the system, will track the respective new default.
(+4, 2, -0)
= Followups =
#topic #108 How do we keep rawhide sane?
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/108
#topic #112 Discussion: Module lifecycles
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/112
#topic #114 Stream default changes & Fedora Changes
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/114
#topic #115 Discussion: Stream branch ownership for packages & modules
#link https://pagure.io/modularity/issue/115
= New business =
No new topics planned, we have enough left over from the last meeting.
= Open Floor =
For more complete details, please visit each individual
issue. The report of the agenda items can be found at
https://pagure.io/modularity/report/meeting_agenda
If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can file a new
issue at https://pagure.io/modularity/issues, or bring it up at the end
of the meeting during the open floor topic. Note that the meeting is
one hour long and issues we don't get around to discussing may be
deferred until the following meeting.
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to
Software Engineer purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither
Red Hat Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011
5 years, 4 months
