Response to "Getting Fedora Out of the If-Then Loop"

inode0 inode0 at
Thu Feb 18 18:33:40 UTC 2010

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath at> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, inode0 wrote:
>> Try thinking about what I wrote ignoring a "target audience for the
>> project" because that wasn't the target audience I was talking about.
>> The default spin surely isn't just a pile of random bits. Those who
>> create it have to have a target audience in mind even it isn't nicely
>> stated on the wiki and well understood at a conscious level. So the
>> question comes down to who is going to decide what that audience is.
> Perhaps this is the disagreement.  As far as I can tell, the default spin
> pretty much is a pile of random bits.  It gets decided by lots of people
> (comps and the ks spin) with, AFAIK little coordination or discussion.
> The only limit being a technical one because of the size we aim for.
> Not only is it not stated on the wiki but I suspect it's not stated nor
> understood by anyone in the process who makes the spin.  I'd hope I'm
> wrong, if anyone involved in that process disagrees with me please correct
> me.

You might well be correct, I don't know. This would be a dysfunctional
way of producing the default spin and it turns out surprisingly well
if that is the process.

>> Those who create the spin? The Fedora Project Board? As I stated in
>> the following quoted hunk there are reasons for considering moving
>> this decision to the board level and various parts of the project
>> could benefit from doing so. And my concern is that doing this at the
>> board level introduces a distortion into the upper parts of the
>> pyramid. The consequences of introducing that distortion aren't known
>> (life isn't that simple) and the board can conclude they are nothing
>> to be concerned about given the benefits they expect in other areas if
>> that is their judgment.
> Why do it at the board level?  Because even when each team is picking what
> packages should be on their spin.  They can only pick from a single rpm
> version of each package.  Each package made by a packager for whatever
> they think Fedora is.  When you install a package, it pulls in all sorts
> of other things, those other things pulled in based on the best guess of
> the packager.  Should X pull in the cluster suite or be broken into a sub
> package?  What would the user prefer?  What user?
> You know what?  I've explained this 1000 times at this point and you know
> my point of view very well just as I know yours.  If you really care about
> doing something about it (as I did).  Join the board.

I acknowledged your reasons in what you quoted above and did not
dismiss them. I even acknowledged that it was reasonable for the board
to weigh the benefits and use its judgment to decide that doing this
at the board level was the correct way to proceed.

I would hope that a lot more than 10 people who really care about
Fedora exist. Being on the board is not a requirement to really care.


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