Response to "Getting Fedora Out of the If-Then Loop"

Josh Boyer jwboyer at
Fri Feb 19 16:50:05 UTC 2010

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 05:25:08PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
>2010/2/19 Josh Boyer <jwboyer at>:
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 04:40:55PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
>>>> There's a reality here that's not being acknowledged, and it has little
>>>> to do with popularity. I hope folks who work on XFCE or KDE in Fedora
>>>> don't come into those projects with the expectation that the same amount
>>>> of resources are dedicated to those as the desktop spin - because that's
>>>> never been true, and I sure hope they've not been misled into thinking
>>>> so.
>>>Well, gladly there are other projects where things like that just
>>>works. For example openSUSE.
>>>But i would be interested in what you think what will happen with
>>>Fedora if all the unwanted (it sounds exactly like that to me)
>>>developers leave and Fedora is left behind with only GNOME?
>>>Is that your perfect future?
>> Why would they leave?
>Because they get pushed out by reading over and over again how
>unwanted they are? That's exactly the impression i get.

Where are they reading that?  Could you point me to an email or
wiki page or document from the Board, FESCo, the Spins SIG, the
Ambassador's group, or any of our other groups that says we don't
want developers of other environments?

>Feel free to work on whatever you want but dont expect anything.
>People come by, start to like Fedora (for whatever reasons), stay,
>start to contribute (not speaking of GNOME/Desktop/Default
>contributors) and get treated like disabled persons from time to time.

They get treated like disabled persons?  I'm not exactly sure what you
mean, but that sounds pretty offensive to multiple groups of people.

>That starts with the discussions about the "Desktop" spin. Just try
>and see it from a different point of view. Not only GNOME is a
>Desktop. But if you simply want to discuss that point, you get flamed
>from people who are afraid of their job/being #1/i have no idea what
>else (GNOME people), that it was always like that and it will ever be.
>There was just the try to discuss the interesting name "Desktop" spin.
>And one/the very well argument is, there are more Desktops.
>But anyways. Not rolling that one again.

I happen to agree that Desktop is a slightly nebulous name.  However,
there's also a Security Spin and that certainly cannot mean that it
represents the sole way to do Security in Fedora.

>There is a lot more, but i'm not the right one to discuss this. I
>contribute in different ways (FAS thomasj). I still like Fedora, but
>my english and most likely my knowledge of the deeps of Fedora, are
>way to bad to discuss that with native english speakers and real

I think your English is quite good for what it's worth.

>I just wanted to point out the impression that i (and not only i) get.

I'd really like to understand better where these kind of impressions are
coming from.  There is a large difference between "Gnome is our current
default offering" and "we don't want anyone in Fedora unless they use/
contribute to Gnome".  I just do not understand how one could get that
impression, particularly with all the communication the Board has done
to the contrary lately.


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