Response to "Getting Fedora Out of the If-Then Loop"

[Thomas Janssen]

2010/2/19 Josh Boyer <jwboyer at gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 05:25:08PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
>>2010/2/19 Josh Boyer <jwboyer at gmail.com>:
>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 04:40:55PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
>>>>> There's a reality here that's not being acknowledged, and it has little
>>>>> to do with popularity. I hope folks who work on XFCE or KDE in Fedora
>>>>> don't come into those projects with the expectation that the same amount
>>>>> of resources are dedicated to those as the desktop spin - because that's
>>>>> never been true, and I sure hope they've not been misled into thinking
>>>>> so.
>>>>
>>>>Well, gladly there are other projects where things like that just
>>>>works. For example openSUSE.
>>>>
>>>>But i would be interested in what you think what will happen with
>>>>Fedora if all the unwanted (it sounds exactly like that to me)
>>>>developers leave and Fedora is left behind with only GNOME?
>>>>Is that your perfect future?
>>>
>>> Why would they leave?
>>
>>Because they get pushed out by reading over and over again how
>>unwanted they are? That's exactly the impression i get.
>
> Where are they reading that?  Could you point me to an email or
> wiki page or document from the Board, FESCo, the Spins SIG, the
> Ambassador's group, or any of our other groups that says we don't
> want developers of other environments?

No. It's part of what you read for example in IRC as this exasperating
discussion about the Desktop was. As people asked why not spin off KDE
like (your primary enemy) Ubuntu with Kubuntu. I couldn't believe that
this was said. But that is one example.

>>Feel free to work on whatever you want but dont expect anything.
>>People come by, start to like Fedora (for whatever reasons), stay,
>>start to contribute (not speaking of GNOME/Desktop/Default
>>contributors) and get treated like disabled persons from time to time.
>
> They get treated like disabled persons?  I'm not exactly sure what you
> mean, but that sounds pretty offensive to multiple groups of people.

See what Seth Vidal wrote and you know what i mean with my english is too bad.

>>That starts with the discussions about the "Desktop" spin. Just try
>>and see it from a different point of view. Not only GNOME is a
>>Desktop. But if you simply want to discuss that point, you get flamed
>>from people who are afraid of their job/being #1/i have no idea what
>>else (GNOME people), that it was always like that and it will ever be.
>>There was just the try to discuss the interesting name "Desktop" spin.
>>And one/the very well argument is, there are more Desktops.
>>But anyways. Not rolling that one again.
>
> I happen to agree that Desktop is a slightly nebulous name.  However,
> there's also a Security Spin and that certainly cannot mean that it
> represents the sole way to do Security in Fedora.

But you know what i mean. Well, as i said, i dont want to roll that
whole discussion again.

>>There is a lot more, but i'm not the right one to discuss this. I
>>contribute in different ways (FAS thomasj). I still like Fedora, but
>>my english and most likely my knowledge of the deeps of Fedora, are
>>way to bad to discuss that with native english speakers and real
>>contributors.
>
> I think your English is quite good for what it's worth.

See above :)

>>I just wanted to point out the impression that i (and not only i) get.
>
> I'd really like to understand better where these kind of impressions are
> coming from.  There is a large difference between "Gnome is our current
> default offering" and "we don't want anyone in Fedora unless they use/
> contribute to Gnome".  I just do not understand how one could get that
> impression, particularly with all the communication the Board has done
> to the contrary lately.

I think you guys (sorry if it's again wrong) do a great job. We can
talk with you, you try to understand us (contributors of fedora in
general) and that's often enough hard enough. I'm sorry that this
happened here on the board ML. It has nothing to do with the Board
itself.

And i never said you dont want other contributors. I would have been a
liar. And i'm not one. All i wanted is to point out that sometimes,
some people tend to say stupid things that hurts other peoples
feelings. And sometimes those other people speak up instead of just
silently take everything. That's what i did today.

If i made the impression that this had something todo with the Board
or Boards last communications, then my apologies.

-- 
LG Thomas

Dubium sapientiae initium