proposal for the board: planet fedora != fedora people

[Toshio Kuratomi]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:16:40PM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Matt Domsch <matt at domsch.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:37:18PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> >> Hi ,
> >>  so planet.fedoraproject.org used to be title 'fedorapeople' b/c it was
> >> about the fedora people.
> >>
> >> So here's the idea:
> >>
> >> make planet.fedoraproject.org be ONLY about fedora and/or related
> >> technologies/events/etc - just enforce a fedora 'tag'.
> >>
> >> and make:
> >> planet.fedoraproject.org/people/ be the anything-goes aggregate.
> >
> > -1 from me.
> >
> > I understand the concern raised generally - we want to keep content
> > appropriate - the challenge is, this is a societal/community norms
> > discussion then.  I presume someone has contacted this particular
> > author privately already (likely his Ambassador sponsor; if not, let's
> > be sure that happens).
> >
> > For this technical proposal:
> >
> > 1) It doesn't solve the problem of inappropriate content in a
> > technical way.  Someone could just as easily put a Fedora tag on their
> > inappropriate content, and land it on both.
> >
> > 2) it creates yet-another-place for remarkably similar content, and i
> > think we're mighty spread out as it is.
> >
> > Unless we're going to start having a set of human filters on whatever
> > might get aggregated, we're going to occasionally have a problem post.
> > But in those few cases, let's try correcting the individuals involved,
> > rather than try to police it apriori.
> >
> > I do agree it would be appropriate to create a set of planet
> > guidelines and recommendations, which, if blatently and repeatedly
> > broken, may result in loss of aggregation privilages.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Matt
> 
> I think this is a highly reactionary move to a fairly innocent blog
> post that is related to another distro.
> 
I agree with this statement and still like pieces of the proposal.  I'll
explain more down below.

> I think this really shoots us in the collective foot in a number of ways:
> 
> #1: People will not know, or not remember, to tag their Fedora-related
> articles as Fedora.  Thus, a lot of really good content will get
> skipped.
> 
I think this could be true.  It is a potential failing of this proposal.
OTOH, I know that I sometimes hesitate to post things that are
non-technology related because there is no separate feed for Fedora as
a Community vs Fedora as a technology project planets and I know some people
only want technology posts while others want "human interest" as well.

> #2: I, like most people I would suspect, do not want to have to read 2
> different blogs to see what is going on in the Fedora community.  I
> personally enjoy reading what is going on in the lives of people
> inside the community that is not Fedora-related.  Getting rid of that
> - we might as well just say, we're not friends - we're only interested
> in your Fedora content. We're a community. Friends is one of our
> -foundations-.  Why would we implement a policy that makes the main
> aggregate for all the Fedora community blogs send a message that is
> contrary to what we believe?
> 
IIUC, you only need to read the anything goes feed.
planet.fedoraproject.org would be a strict subset (filtering by the fedora
tag) of planet.fedoraproject.org/people/.

Personally I wouldn't care which feed was the anything goes and which was
restricted to fedora-only tagged content.  Maybe we do want to present hte
community side of Fedora front and center and have a link to :: "Technology
only posts" from the main page.

> #3: I think the reasons for doing so are just entirely too
> big-brotherish.  Seriously: We've had issues in the past where people
> have posted questionable content - and I'll just say Nicu, because I'm
> sure he's reading this (HI NICU!) and there's no point in being
> subtle, and I think that's the scenario most people are thinking of.
> Now, I happen to enjoy Nicu's photos and content and I actively go out
> out of my way to read his non-planet postings - which are non-planet
> because someone -just talked- to him.  As a -Friend- would.
> 
> #4:  We're considering doing this over a post that is not even
> -questionable content-. We're doing this because we don't like seeing
> an ubuntu logo on our planet feed.  This sends a message that,
> basically, your content isn't welcome here because you work in
> multiple communities.  Do we not think that that message is going to
> backfire terribly?
> 
I'd like to echo this sentiment 100%.  A post about Ubuntu on Fedora planet
is a marketing faux pas that may or may not affect people reading's decision
to work on Fedora for technical reasons that may be proved wrong by other
information (now or later).  A detailed post about the things you did to
subtract points from your purity test score last night is offensive to an
audience of people who may decide not to contribute to such an immature
community at a more visceral level that's harder to counteract just via
facts or changes in the technological landscape.

> I'd like to add that currently, on the front page of ubuntu's planet,
> RIGHT NOW, is this highly detailed blog post.  Do you think this same
> conversation is going on in parallel elsewhere?
> http://pthree.org/2010/06/17/using-symantec-netbackp-with-a-fedora-12-live-cd/
> 
> I don't happen to think that ubuntu content on our blog is a problem.
> Particularly if the same people are posting Fedora content there - or
> Debian folks are posting content to all three places - then it becomes
> a feature, rather than a problem. I'm not a fan of being known as "the
> distro that won't let you talk about other distros," or essentially,
> the distro that relegates all non-distro related content to a sub-blog
> that nobody ever reads.
> 
<nod>.  I wouldn't want to be known for this either.

What I would like as an author is to be able to send posts that I feel are
appropriate for people interested in Fedora the Project, open source, and
linux to one feed and send posts that people who are interested in me
because I'm a member of the Fedora Community to another.  I'd like to know
that the "technology-only" feed is a strict subset of the Community feed --
in other words, as a reader, if I subscribe to the community feed, I get all
posts from people that end up on the filtered planet(s).

Maybe what would work better is something like this:

People can set up different feeds for different planets in their .planet
files just like now. feeds can be listed that don't associate with a visible
page on planet.fedoraproject.org.

There is also a "community" feed which is an aggregate of all the feeds
listed in everyone's .planet files including the ones with no visible page.
Duplicates from different feeds are reduced to a single entry.

We set up new planets when people have new guidelines that they want to
moderate a feed with -- Only technology?  Only fedora?  Only summer of code?
Only gnome?

I don't know what feed would occupy the planet.fedoraproject.org page (Or
maybe having a different feed on planet.fedoraproject.org and
planet.fedorapeople.org)

This might require someone to do some coding -- I don't think we currently
have software that would take the separate feeds and dedupe the posts when
assembling a meta feed.

-Toshio
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