Remaining issues for the multi desktop DVD (was: Re: Dear Fedora board, please open your trac)

inode0 inode0 at
Wed Jan 12 19:02:46 UTC 2011

2011/1/12 Máirín Duffy <duffy at>:
> On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 12:14 -0600, inode0 wrote:
>> per having one more sales agent to help sell your product
>> > is helpful, but you have to consider whether it's worth it if said sales
>> > agent makes your product come off basement-produced rather than polished
>> > and professional. Let's not sell ourselves short when we do actually
>> > have the skills and professionalism to do it right...?
>> I completely agree. However, for some of the uses I've described even
>> a basement-produced product is better than the existing polished
>> product we have. It is only one menu that lacks polish and the person
>> I'm showing this to doesn't even need to see that menu, then it boots
>> right into what you see by booting the spin directly. Let's clean up
>> that extra menu layer though by all means so new users can boot it
>> themselves and we aren't unhappy with what they see.
> I'd like to make it clear that the unpolished menu is not a problem for
> ambassadors themselves to use home-burnt multispin media in usage for
> demo machines. I do personally take issue with Fedora funding media that
> includes an unpolished syslinux menu with the purpose of distributing
> said media far and wide to would-be users for the promotion of Fedora,
> as I strongly believe it would compromise our brand.

Well, no one is in favor of pressing media that looks like crap to
hand out to people. Really, we aren't trying to do that and we

> The difference in opinions I think is because where some see a
> functional product that solves a technical problem, I see an
> embarrassingly, visibly flawed promotional item. Such distributed media
> primarily are promotional items IMHO. E.g., people have come up to me at
> show booths to tell me they 'collect' the media but don't actually use
> it as they download Fedora to install from our website.

I see a functional product that I am using now to solve technical
problems. I also see an opportunity that with your help and a bit from
others as well we can have a polished product to distribute that will
help solve other problems too.

> I don't think the syslinux menu timeout is a great solution for less
> advanced users on a multispin dvd as it's giving a much more expensive
> piece of plastic to someone who would use it in the same way as the
> cheaper one and might not ever realize there's more on it. With careful
> wording on the sleeve design (which I've yet to see any proposed copy or
> description or mockups of after repeated requests) this may be a
> surmountable issue.

I'm pretty agnostic to how usability is accomplished and would rather
let the designers and UI people make the suggestions because you'll
definitely get garage quality if it is left to me.

> Honestly, the changes I proposed to polish the menu are quick and
> simple. I was able to do them myself and I am far less technical than
> pretty much everyone involved here. I will support the proposed DVD if:
> - It includes my proposed changes to syslinux
> - If sensible copy is written for the media sleeve (note that we have
> heightened requirements for legal text on the sleeve since F14 GA so
> there is much more limited space) and that copy / even better a mockup
> is provided for review here
> - If acceptable syslinux screenshots with the proposed changes are made
> available here for review.
> - If it works functionally (of course)
> Whether or not my support actually matters is another matter
> altogether :)
> ~m
> P.S. screenshots for review of these things are *always* helpful. It is
> bandwidth and time-intensive and requires a level of technical expertise
> to have to download and burn the image just to see a screen that is a
> simple camera click or PrtSc away for the folks who are looking for
> support here.

Surely this isn't the place to work on the UI. All the board needs to
do is encourage all parties to continue and come back for the final
blessing when it is ready. We can slide over to the normal design
channels to get help on the UI issues. I really would like to think
about this for F15 at this point and use FUDCon to get a meeting of
the minds.


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