Fwd: Re: [Fedora Board issue tracker] #135: Connotations Problems with Beefy Miracle

Rajesh Ranjan rranjan at redhat.com
Mon Mar 26 02:35:50 UTC 2012

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [Fedora Board issue tracker] #135: Connotations Problems 
with Beefy Miracle
Date: 	Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:39:32 -0000
From: 	Fedora Board issue tracker <board-trac at fedorahosted.org>
Reply-To: 	board-private at lists.fedoraproject.org
CC: 	board-private at lists.fedoraproject.org

#135: Connotations Problems with Beefy Miracle
  Reporter:  rajesh                               |       Owner:  somebody
      Type:  task                                 |      Status:  new
  Priority:  major                                |   Milestone:
Component:  Fedora Project                       |  Resolution:
  Keywords:  Connotations, Fedora 17, Beefy       |  Blocked By:
   Miracle                                        |
  Blocking:                                       |

Comment (by cwickert):

  Preface: I am a vegetarian myself, but I am a supporter of Beefy Miracle.
  Beefy Miracle has a 10 year history in Red Hat and Fedora. It first
  appeared in Red Hat Linux 7.3 which was released in May 2002 and I think
  it's great that Fedora 17 marks the 10 anniversary of both RHL 7.3 (one of
  the best releases ever) and Beefy Miracle.

  Replying to [ticket:135 rajesh]:
  >  Beefy Miracle is having a huge negative cultural, social, and political
  connotation with respect to India and several religions of India and

  Fedora is an international, non-religious and non-political project. The
  name "Beefy Miracle" was chosen by our contributors and I am afraid that
  if we let our international community vote, we will always upset some
  regions, ideologies, regions or just people, even if it is certainly not
  our intention.

  >  Even I can find there is one direct meaning of 'Beefy' is also there -
  filled with beef: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beefy

  "Beefy Miracle" is a fixed term and not two words. I mean, you would not
  analyze the words "Micky" and "mouse" separately, would you? If you would,
  I guess you would also find something negative about mouses (spread
  diseases, many people are afraid of them) or the name Micky (too American,
  cultural imperialism). But that's not how it works. It's a fixed term.
  It's Micky Mouse, a cute little mouse that (almost) everybody loves.

  >  [http://beefymiracle.org Beefy Miracle] is the code name for fedora 17
  and the pix shown there on this promotion iste of  of a food item filled
  with beef. I don't feel there is any connect between the typical meaning
  of 'beefy' word with the image.

  Right, the 'typical' meaning - whatever you consider it - is not connected
  because it is a fixed term. The term refers to the hot dog that you see on
  the picture.

  >  And please check here as well how our community understand 'beefy' word
  when selecting
  [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_18 Fedora 18
  Naming], mainly thier context is beef only.

  I hardly see anything with beef there, most suggestions do not even
  involve meat.

  >  Some Links that can show how it is a wrong selection with respect to
  Indian larger community as well as govt of India and in particular
  religions like Hindu, Boddha, Jainas, Sikhs etc.

  Again, we are not political and not religious. We do not need to follow
  religious believes or political views. In fact we ''must'' not follow any
  of them because this means that we will offend others.

  >  "The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry
  on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for
  preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter, of
  cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle."

  "modern and scientific" does not mix with the prohibition of slaughtering
  cows, because from a scientific point of view there is nothing that makes
  cows different from other animals we use to slaughter. This is a good
  example of why we should not appease the specific believes of one
  religion. Religions are not based on ratio but on believes.

  >  "The cow is considered sacred by most Hindus and hence beef is
  considered taboo in many Indian states, and therefore most restaurants do
  not serve it. However beef is consumed by people of other religions and
  certain sections of Hindus. Beef is commonly sold in restaurants in the
  North-Eastern states, Goa and Kerala. Apart from this, international
  restaurants (primarily located in urban areas) too serve beef dishes
  according to their usual menus."

  And have there been protests against these restaurants? Did you already
  ask them to stop serving meat?

  >  So there is a need of proper connotation analysis before going for the
  any name and so for this also.

  I fully agree. We need to filter out the potentially offending names
  ''before'' it comes to a vote. The board already does this, but obviously
  none of us was aware of your concerns. Therefor we need our community to
  help us. I appreciate your ticket as an attempt to do so.

  >  Similarly, prima facie, I feel that "Juicy Bacon" is also loaded with
  very very negative connotation from Fedora 18 name selection list.

  I don't really know what connotation you have about "Juicy Bacon", but I
  agree that it is a bad name. I am pretty sure we will not have something
  with meat or even food again for F18.

  P.S.: I hope you are not offended by my reply. That is certainly not my
  intention, I just want you to question your point of view, because from
  mine, many of your reasons are hard to understand. Because of our
  different cultural background we are too difficult to fully agree.

  As an international project we should be proud of our diversity. It is a
  chance and a burden at the same time, Fedora will face this problem often
  and we can do our best to respect others and their views.

Ticket URL:<https://fedorahosted.org/board/ticket/135#comment:1>
Fedora Board issue tracker<http://fedorahosted.org/board>
Issue tracking for the Fedora Board

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