Fwd: Re: [Fedora Board issue tracker] #135: Connotations Problems with Beefy Miracle
rranjan at redhat.com
Mon Mar 26 02:35:50 UTC 2012
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fedora Board issue tracker] #135: Connotations Problems
with Beefy Miracle
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:39:32 -0000
From: Fedora Board issue tracker <board-trac at fedorahosted.org>
Reply-To: board-private at lists.fedoraproject.org
CC: board-private at lists.fedoraproject.org
#135: Connotations Problems with Beefy Miracle
Reporter: rajesh | Owner: somebody
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: major | Milestone:
Component: Fedora Project | Resolution:
Keywords: Connotations, Fedora 17, Beefy | Blocked By:
Comment (by cwickert):
Preface: I am a vegetarian myself, but I am a supporter of Beefy Miracle.
Beefy Miracle has a 10 year history in Red Hat and Fedora. It first
appeared in Red Hat Linux 7.3 which was released in May 2002 and I think
it's great that Fedora 17 marks the 10 anniversary of both RHL 7.3 (one of
the best releases ever) and Beefy Miracle.
Replying to [ticket:135 rajesh]:
> Beefy Miracle is having a huge negative cultural, social, and political
connotation with respect to India and several religions of India and
Fedora is an international, non-religious and non-political project. The
name "Beefy Miracle" was chosen by our contributors and I am afraid that
if we let our international community vote, we will always upset some
regions, ideologies, regions or just people, even if it is certainly not
> Even I can find there is one direct meaning of 'Beefy' is also there -
filled with beef: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beefy
"Beefy Miracle" is a fixed term and not two words. I mean, you would not
analyze the words "Micky" and "mouse" separately, would you? If you would,
I guess you would also find something negative about mouses (spread
diseases, many people are afraid of them) or the name Micky (too American,
cultural imperialism). But that's not how it works. It's a fixed term.
It's Micky Mouse, a cute little mouse that (almost) everybody loves.
> [http://beefymiracle.org Beefy Miracle] is the code name for fedora 17
and the pix shown there on this promotion iste of of a food item filled
with beef. I don't feel there is any connect between the typical meaning
of 'beefy' word with the image.
Right, the 'typical' meaning - whatever you consider it - is not connected
because it is a fixed term. The term refers to the hot dog that you see on
> And please check here as well how our community understand 'beefy' word
[http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_18 Fedora 18
Naming], mainly thier context is beef only.
I hardly see anything with beef there, most suggestions do not even
> Some Links that can show how it is a wrong selection with respect to
Indian larger community as well as govt of India and in particular
religions like Hindu, Boddha, Jainas, Sikhs etc.
Again, we are not political and not religious. We do not need to follow
religious believes or political views. In fact we ''must'' not follow any
of them because this means that we will offend others.
> "The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry
on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for
preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter, of
cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle."
"modern and scientific" does not mix with the prohibition of slaughtering
cows, because from a scientific point of view there is nothing that makes
cows different from other animals we use to slaughter. This is a good
example of why we should not appease the specific believes of one
religion. Religions are not based on ratio but on believes.
> "The cow is considered sacred by most Hindus and hence beef is
considered taboo in many Indian states, and therefore most restaurants do
not serve it. However beef is consumed by people of other religions and
certain sections of Hindus. Beef is commonly sold in restaurants in the
North-Eastern states, Goa and Kerala. Apart from this, international
restaurants (primarily located in urban areas) too serve beef dishes
according to their usual menus."
And have there been protests against these restaurants? Did you already
ask them to stop serving meat?
> So there is a need of proper connotation analysis before going for the
any name and so for this also.
I fully agree. We need to filter out the potentially offending names
''before'' it comes to a vote. The board already does this, but obviously
none of us was aware of your concerns. Therefor we need our community to
help us. I appreciate your ticket as an attempt to do so.
> Similarly, prima facie, I feel that "Juicy Bacon" is also loaded with
very very negative connotation from Fedora 18 name selection list.
I don't really know what connotation you have about "Juicy Bacon", but I
agree that it is a bad name. I am pretty sure we will not have something
with meat or even food again for F18.
P.S.: I hope you are not offended by my reply. That is certainly not my
intention, I just want you to question your point of view, because from
mine, many of your reasons are hard to understand. Because of our
different cultural background we are too difficult to fully agree.
As an international project we should be proud of our diversity. It is a
chance and a burden at the same time, Fedora will face this problem often
and we can do our best to respect others and their views.
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