[Ambassadors] Raleigh, we have a problem ...

[Michael J. Knox]

Rahul wrote:
>>
>> Basically "The conclusion was that the interests of Fedora users 
>> using proprietary NVidia modules outweigh the interests of other 
>> users who would benefit from this update."[1]
>
> Amazingly bad conclusion. So much for a detailed explanation of the 
> process. We might as well as have not discussed this issue and 
> conveyed the ideas better. What instead happened was that at the time 
> we were discussing this issue, the Xorg maintainer happened to Ajax 
> and he had no intention on his own to provide a update and we decided 
> that we need to have a general update policy and until then the 
> updates would be a maintainer's decision.

It might be a bad conclusion in the eyes of a RedHat employee and 
someone high in the "ranks" of the Fedora community... but read the 
writing on the wall!

If everyone is calling it a cow, it moos like a cow.. its a good chance 
it is a cow, even if you call it a dog. As a Fedora user and (still) a 
Fedora contributor, it is the same conclusion I drew from the issue.

>> I was also there when everyone was berating Eric S. Raymond for the 
>> mere suggestion of RedHat making it easier for end users to add MP3 
>> and DVD support. The sheer notation of doing so, left the 
>> fedora-devel mailing looking like a kindergarden play yard (not too 
>> mention IRC).Fedora's attitude towards those that do need 3rd party, 
>> non-distributable or non-free, is doing it damage. I am just telling 
>> you how it is out there, out side your little RedHat office....
>
> First, lets stop with belittling other people. My Fedora work has 
> nothing to do with Red Hat. I have been involved with Fedora much 
> before I joined Red Hat so what office I am in is completely 
> irrelevant to the current discussion. I have spend enough time "out 
> there" too to understand the issues that pop up quite often.

Clearly you don't understand, either that, or you are covering your ears 
and going "la la la la la everything is fine la la la la la" because the 
landscape is not peachy for Fedora in my country.

> ESR didnt merely come up with a polite request to add MP3 support. He 
> claimed incorrect things about the patents not covering decoders. The 
> mail was full of inflammatory leads.
Right or wrong approach to a subject does not make the subject its self 
wrong. In my opinion, ESR has some very valid points, one that didn't 
seem to be heard.

>> Its not a conspiracy when I front up to a LUG and have to answer the 
>> whys? of users not interested in using Fedora and then relay that to 
>> the ambassador list!!
>
> If some users wont be interested until we include proprietary software 
> by default in Fedora, then we are already aware of that. As a 
> ambassadors, it would be your job to point out the project's 
> objectives politely.
That is NOT what is being asked for or even suggested!! Ubuntu, for 
example, does not redistribute non-free in its distribution, however, it 
(non-free) is made easily accessable (legally) through hosted 
repositories. My initial comment was that is should not be a "cardinal 
sin" to advising users on how to install perfectly legal 3rd party 
packages.

>>
>> Instead of telling me I am spreading "unfounded claims" and 
>> "conspiracy theories" on what I have just relied to you, based on 
>> first hand end user experiences, why don't you make a founded effort 
>> to help set the story straight?
>
> Yep. I have already set the stories straight many times and I will 
> continue to do so.
Seems to be working well, since Fedora's popularity appears to be 
falling.....

>  Why don't you, as a member of the Fedora Project Board
>> and a member of the Fedora Ambassador Steering commitee, do something 
>> to help the Fedora advocates actually advocate for their platform of 
>> choice, instead of telling to "stop the silly conspiracy theories" ?
>>
>> Or is that too much to expect?
>
> You assume this is not already been done. Suffice to say, this is not 
> true.

I see nothing from Fedora that indicates that its addressing valid and 
real issues that hamper the ability for users to switch or even in some 
cases, recommend, Fedora. The fact that Fedora seems to be loosing 
favor, only proves to me, that what ever is being do, is not working.

Maybe I am wrong.. maybe everyone in the LUGs around have it right... I 
don't know.

Michael