[Ambassadors] Fedora is the 2º most used Linux s ystem

[Jukka Palander]

On Mon, 2011-11-28 at 16:20 +0800, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-11-28 at 08:26 +0100, Jukka Palander wrote:
> > On Sun, 2011-11-27 at 13:30 +0000, Onyeibo Oku wrote:
> > > Is this really a topic for Ambassadors list? This should be pursued at the source i.e. Gnome-designers and fedora desktop group. Personally, I find your position too relative (as in, pertaining to personal preferences rather than absolute (based on result of tested scenarios) ... And those scenarios being hypothetical and subjected to testing during development stage). Which experts do you refer to?
> > 
> > 
> > This is indeed a place to discuss about it!
> > 
> > Ambassadors list (in my opinion) is especially a forum to discuss about
> > _anything_ what we hear and see in the Fedora users field.
> > 
> > This is _not_ a forum to discuss about how something should be improved
> > (development boards are in place), but we have to remember that we
> > ambassadors are the first people in touch with the users. Therefore our
> > eyes and ears are very valuable asset for development (and I really hope
> > some of the developers reads this list).
> 
> I don't think they should (unless they are also ambassadors of course).

Why? As everyone keeps saying "this is an open source project"! I would
love someone being not a group member to read this!

> Your ears only have value if you translate the message (in dev speak)
> and forward it to Bugzilla, or similar developers fora.

So this leads us into the huge problem: No-one (other than ambassador)
reads this list so _how_ they (other contributors) could understand what
happens in (the battle)field? Therefore this mailing list should be
axed? ..and we ambassadors should start being members of every other
mailing list? ..quite of wrong way of "management".

> > This is the reason that I think we should say it out loud what people
> > think about Fedora and what they have decided to do no matter if it is
> > one or two users or a larger scale survey.
> 
> Really?
> 
> Imagine: 541 ambassadors right now. If each one of us sends a message
> every time we hear something, anything, about Fedora, this list will be
> overwhelmed by noise, and will become useless.

Cmon, pleeeeeease! Did I send all the messages what I have heard in a
first place into this list?

Question: Are those comments we get from the field going into the bin?
No-one wants to listen? No place to put them unless you are a member of
a very specific development mailing-list etc to put in in a "right
place"???

Suggestion: Some place/application for feedback given to ambassadors
from users would be nice. Not the email list, but rather some kind of a
database drive application where it would be easy to run analyses..
Howtodo-donno..

I still feel that the most valuable feedback comes from the users. 
Not necessarily from the "linux-novices" but from the advanced and
semiadvanced linux users. They (normally) are not members of any mailing
list or a group. They just use linux (whatever distribution) as a tool
for their work and some of them uses linux for
fun/pleasure/hobby/anything.

> You are in contact with users, but your role is to be an interface. It
> is not to say "some guy told me that they don't like $desktop". That's a
> useless information, no one can act on it to fix a problem and improve
> the situation.

I am filtering _heavily_. This is just a tip of the iceberg what I said
before!

> If you honestly think that "sour and noisy" can bring in "new ideas"
> leading towards improving the status quo, then you haven't spent enough
> time on devel at fp.o :)

Yap. :-)

--
Jukka