[Ambassadors] Ambassadors places in new Working Groups

[Ankur Sinha]

On Sun, 2013-10-27 at 14:46 +0100, Nobrakal wrote:
> 2013/10/27, Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur at gmail.com>:
> > On Sun, 2013-10-27 at 12:27 +0100, Nobrakal wrote:
<snip>
> 
> That great, for Tuan and Cwickert. But my problem is that neither
> email was sent on the ambassadors list. And, as you say, they are
> ambassadors "additional". We need real representant of Ambassadors (I
> don't say Tuan ans Cwickert are bad ambassadors)

I fail to see why a mail was to be sent to this list. Here's the thing:

As ambassadors, it is *our* duty to keep tabs of what's going on in
other Fedora projects so we can spread the word better. It is not the
duty of all other Fedora teams to send us status updates. As Jon's
already replied, *anyone* from the community is free to help the working
groups, attend their meetings, contribute in whatever way. If you're
asking for a special ambassador slot, I can't see your logic.

> >
> > Elected members of the WG are ones who will *lead* them. Ambassadors are
> > more than welcome to keep tabs on these working groups and provide them
> > with feedback when required, like the rest of the community.
> 
> Yes, but we need a mentor for this ambassador, to coordinate their
> action in the WG.

I don't understand this part. Can you please elaborate?

> 
> <snip>>
> > Development/WGs (Develop) -> Marketing/Docs team (Keep tabs + create
> > collateral: flyers etc.) -> Ambassadors + and the community, in general
> > (Spread the word) -> rest of the world.
> 
> It's for the first release. After, for your product, you need
> feedback, and other suggestion, to best help them. The user is the
> center of all contributors. So, your order become

> 
> Development/WGs (Develop) -> Marketing/Docs team (Keep tabs + create
> >collateral: flyers etc.) -> Ambassadors + and the community, in general
>  (Spread the word) -> rest of the world. -> User -> Development/WGs
> (Develop)....

It's actually a cycle. No one is saying users aren't important. I'm
saying that they don't need to have an allocated seat in the development
team that creates the product. Developers care about their users and pay
attention to feedback themselves. It is part of their development
process.

> 
> This last step require ambassadors.

It needs someone who *knows* the product and cares enough to spread the
word. This person does not need to be an ambassador. A great example is
gnome-software. I've never seen Richard mail this list, but there's
enough buzz about what he's doing. He sends out the initial information
(via his blog, or a mail to the devel list), and any one interested
picks it up and passes it along. Therefore, the developer doesn't need
to explicitly find ambassadors and ask them to spread the word. *We*,
*Ambassadors*, need to keep an eye out for anything worth marketing and
help disperse this information. The burden of finding out and filtering
what's worth spreading is ours (along with the marketing team etc.)

> 
> >
> > It's similar to what we have now, which is why I keep requesting folks
> > that aren't developers to help out with marketing/docs, or at least to
> > keep tabs on their tasks.
> 
> That very good. This is why you need ambassadors, for all steps in the
> developpement.
> 
> > Users don't create software. They use it.
> That the most important thing ! Softwares are make to users. If you
> exclude user of your process, it's a big mistake

Please read above. 

> 
> >Most users don't know or care
> > at all about how software is created. In most cases, users are only
> > involved during the first phase of software development, when
> > requirements are being collected. The WGs already have their
> > requirements figured out.
> 
> You forget the post-production. After a software, user have some other
> idea of improvement.

Please read above.

> 
> > For example, what would you as a user contribute to the server (or
> > another) working group?
> 
> For example, I'm a user. I want php on my server, but it isn't in the
> "server" group on yum. I can tell developpers to add php in their
> group.

Yes. But I fail to see why this means you need to be part of the release
engineering team that maintains the yum groups. You can use the products
that the WGs release and give them feedback using one of the many
available channels. 

> 
> 
> 2013/10/27, Frank Murphy <frankly3d at gmail.com>:
> > On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 12:34:01 +0100
> > Nobrakal <nobrakal at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> > It is also important to have them in freemedia,
> > don't see that happening, too often.
> 
> Yes, you're right, but it's another problem. But, now, freemedia isn't
> longer required. Live usb is very useful, on my mind.

Let's leave this out of this discussion. We've had it over the freemedia
list. It can be continued there, if needed at all.
-- 
Thanks,
Warm regards,
Ankur (FranciscoD)

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

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