Fedora Atomic and Docker Host Image [was Re: Docker Host Image: Requirements?]

Sandro "red" Mathys red at fedoraproject.org
Tue Mar 11 07:39:34 UTC 2014

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Colin Walters <walters at verbum.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 8:26 PM, Steven Dake <sdake at redhat.com> wrote:
> If these are removed from a guest operating system, the guest won't be able
> to function with TripleO, Heat, or anyone that depends on cloud-init.
> Removing cloud-init support effectively kills any motivation for AWS
> adoption of a guest operating system that we may produce.
> I would say that there are many valid ways to provision and manage machines,
> of which Heat/CloudFormation is one.  min-metadata-service does exactly what
> it needs to do to provide the fundamental basis for secure remote access to
> the machine, and with
> https://github.com/cgwalters/min-metadata-service/issues/2
> the guest will also be able to reach out and register on bootup (perhaps by
> first pulling a docker container), which is all one needs to implement
> higher order management tools.
> And there implementation will stop =)
> But I'd agree with you (and others have expressed this sentiment) that we
> should be conservative with backing away from cloud-init in the near future.
> At least for Fedora Cloud.  That said, I am trying to create momentum for a
> smaller but still useful core, ideally written in lovingly hand crafted C
> code, with languages like Python and Ruby still *available*.
> I am a bit confused at the scope because min-metadata-server was mentioned
> early on, but is unnecessary if the target of this OS is to only run on
> hosts.
> Running as a guest is definitely in scope.
> Ideally a python run time would still be available to run virtualization
> platforms like OpenStack.
> Sure, of course.  No one is talking about making python unavailable.  Just
> possibly not installed by default in all builds.

No Python also means no yum/dnf. So Python would only be available
through ostree (deploy a different product - probably too inflexible
for most Python use cases / users) or by deploying a Docker container
with Python. Usually, I'd call this far from ideal but since this is
supposed to be the Docker Host image, using Python within a container
(and thus deploying it with that) sounds is good enough and sounds
perfectly reasonable to me.

Well, we'll discuss this (and the cloud-init vs min-metadata-service)
among other things some more at the upcoming IRC meeting. Everyone is
welcome to join us. Every week on Thu 14:00 UTC in #fedora-meeting.

-- Sandro

> Such a bare-bones operating system would make alot of sense, but I've copied
> a TripleO upstream developer (James) for his thoughts on atomic + ostree and
> its relationship to how TripleO handles continuous deployment through
> imaging.
> I'm certainly interested in the discussion!  OSTree was made from the very
> start to do continuous deployment - at the moment with rpm-ostree I am
> restricting myself to merely accepting RPMs as input, so no continuous
> integration.  But gnome-continuous is a custom build system that takes git
> repositories and writes to the OSTree repository directly (with no
> intermediate package step).
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