Fedora Board Recap 2009-12-17 UTC 1700

[Mike McGrath]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, William Jon McCann wrote:

> Hey Paul,
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster at gmail.com> wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Board_meeting_2009-12-17
> >
> > == Roll Call ==
> > * '''Present:''' Paul Frields, Christopher Aillon, Josh Boyer, Dimitris Glezos, Bill Nottingham, John Poelstra, Jon McCann, Tom "spot" Callaway, Matt Domsch, Mike McGrath, Dennis Gilmore
> >
> > == Last meeting ==
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Board_meeting_2009-12-10
> >
> > == Updates/Installs presentation ==
> > * William Jon McCann -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonMccann
> > * Co-presenter: Christopher Aillon
> > ** pointed back to whiteboard link: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience with new added "Impact" section with information from stakeholders
> > ** document doesn't present implementation, but records opinions garnered from current contributors and stakeholders
> > * General Board consensus is that we do need to establish criteria for updates, and empower FESCo to enforce them
> > * Lots of spirited discussion around various details of the proposal, with conversation that covered a lot of different issues but the Board is not ready to issue hard guidance yet
> > ** Unclear to what extent current pending changes (NFR, AutoQA) will impact any Fedora user's update experience, or how these changes are currently incorporated in the whiteboard
> > ** The whiteboard correctly identifies several problems but it's not clear that it completely lists root causes
> > ACTION:
> > # Enumerate the problems that need to be solved -- as explicitly as possible, no focus on solutions
> > #* Suggested method, repetitive "why" to make sure we're identifying the right root causes
> > #* On list, get owners for each problem from the Board side
> > # Then solicit ideas for proposed solutions
> >
> > == Next meeting ==
> > * Thu Jan 07 2009 - 1700 UTC/12:00pm US Eastern (public IRC)
>
> OK, so who is going to be responsible for following through on these actions?
>
> There are a few things I'd really like to get some clarification on as
> well.  In the meeting it was claimed that focusing on the user
> experience was a "red herring."  It was also stated that the Fedora
> project thinks a broken rawhide is not only a necessity due to lack of
> QA resources but also desirable because it follows from our goals of
> being first and fast.  It was also stated that since we have a
> community to test rawhide and give us feedback when it is broken we
> don't have to test it beforehand.  It was also stated that we've moved
> to a system where we no longer compose rawhide but push out new builds
> as they arrive and that should be what people are testing.  There was
> also some disagreement between board members about what the role of
> the board even is.

I'm not even sure where to start with the above.  Saying stuff like "It
was also stated that the Fedora project thinks a broken rawhide..."  I'm
not sure the Fedora Project itself has thoughts.

>  Some stated that they shouldn't be discussing
> implementation details and others said they shouldn't be setting goals
> without first determining what the implementation details are.  Huh?
>

Did you think everyone on the board has the same thoughts about
everything?

I think you were met with such resistance because it was such a large
proposal and you kept saying things like "Everyone I talked to agreed with
X or Y".  It really felt like your goal in that meeting was to try to get
the Boards rubber stamp on that whiteboard proposal so you could take it
to FESCo and meet any resistance from them with "The board said it was
ok".

The whiteboard:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience

is almost entirely FESCo or other team based.

The desktop team doesn't manage QA, Marketing, documentation or the releng
teams.  If you want QA or marketing to do those things, why not take them
directly to those teams?  You're asking us who's going to follow up on
those actions?  It's your proposal, I'd assume if you're serious about it
you would follow up.

	-Mike