[Design-team] Newly-expanded Fedora logo usage guidelines

[Máirín Duffy]

Hi, I apologize for breaking the thread as my Fedora mail is a bit broken ATM...

> David Nalley david at gnsa.us > Wed Jul 20 01:41:02 UTC 2011 >
2011/7/19 Máirín Duffy <duffy at fedoraproject.org>: > >. As outlined
in the guidelines, you are supposed to request > permission for > >
your particular usage of the logo in writing to logo at >
fedoraproject.org. > > The above seems to conflict with my
understanding of the trademark > guidelines from: >
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines > 

So this is a good point. I am not a lawyer nor any kind of legal
expert, and I do not think this is the correct place to discuss the
particulars of Fedora's trademark guidelines and we'd probably all be
better served if I hadn't said anything in the first place and had just
redirected to Fedora legal. 

Please insert, 'if not explicitly granted by the trademark guidelines'
to the end of the quoted sentence to understand my intent.

The point that Christoph made was: "Somebody could just violate the
guidelines and declare it a sublogo."

The point I was trying to make to allay this concern is that following
the guidelines on the Logo/Usage Guidelines page does not automagically
grant you trademark rights. The trademark guidelines page does *in some
situations* but there are many situations in which it does not. So you
can't make a Fedora Hot Dog Haters logo using the sublogo guidelines
and be okay. The 'Fedora Hot Dog Haters' example given is not explicitly
granted in the trademark guidelines wiki page. Here is some language
that could support this claim, with varying levels of hilarity:

- "the use is only in connection with promoting the Fedora Project or
Fedora products" I don't understand how a group of people sharing
stories of hate about hot dogs promotes the Fedora project or
'products.'

- "the use is not disparaging to Red Hat, the Fedora Project or their
products" - the hot dog is an unofficial meat product of Fedora and
having a haters group is disparaging to it

- "the official logo usage guidelines are strictly observed" - the
official logo guidelines state that the groups sublogo is meant for
usage by groups within Fedora, and the applications logo is for use for
applications running on Fedora's infrastructure. If your application
isn't running on Fedora's infrastructure, you can't use that sublogo.
You could feasibly consider a hot dog haters group a 'group' within
Fedora as it is not an official Fedora SIG or team. I suppose if such a
group went through the SIG creation process such a logo might fly. I do
not know if we have a canonical group of SIGs/teams within Fedora, but
my guess is the list of groups in FAS would be a good start at one.
Certainly if no such group exists you have no business creating such a
logo.

We could modify the language in the logo usage guidelines to explicitly
state you must be creating a logo for an established SIG or team within
Fedora if you use the 'groups' sublogo. Would that help?

> Specifically, there are a number of situations which do not require
> permission to use Fedora®, the Fedora word design, the Infinity design
> logo, Fedora Remix, and the Fedora Remix word design, either
> separately or in combination.

Yep and as stated above there are a number of situation that do.

> Am I misunderstanding the intent of what's meant by request
permission > for a particular usage of the logo? > I fear that if
permission from logo at fp.o is required above and > beyond > the
levels established at the trademark guidelines, I've frequently > run
afoul of that requirement. For instance, the logo that appears at: >
http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/sponsor/fedora  likely originated >
from me (although derived from the svgs) in years past, and fwiu, >
falls within the Trademark Guidelines no-permission-necessary section,
> but I don't recall asking permission for it.

Christoph and I were specifically talking about *modifying* the marks.
E.g., if you take a sublogo design where the name of the application is
meant to be filled in something like:

() fedora
BUILDSYSTEM

() fedora
UPDATE SYSTEM

and do something like this to it:

() fedora
HANKY THE HOTDOG

You're taking a trademarked mark and combining it with 'hanky the
hotdog', who has little to do with Fedora.

So just to restate another way: if you take unmodified (besides say
colorspace and size) logomarks such as the Fedora full logo, the logo
mark, the logo text, or any of the four foundations graphics, and use
them in a manner explicitly approved by the trademark guidelines you
are fine. There is no question your usage of the Fedora logo was fine.
Where it gets hairy is if you decide to take the FUDcon logo and make a

% fudcon
HANKY'S BASEMENT

logo out of it, following the aesthetic guidelines but getting Hanky's
basement involved when there is nor ever will be an official 'FUDcon
Hanky's basement' event.

> To more succinctly state my question: If I comply with the Trademark
> guidelines (either through one of the no-permission-needed
exceptions, > or with an explicit agreement) and I use the trademark(s)
in > accordance with the usage guidelines wrt colors, spacing, etc.,
what > additional permission is needed?

Great question. If you are filling in a 'template' logo there are some
additional requirements:

- If you are using the 'FUDcon' logo template, you may only fill in the
template with the location of an actual FUDcon. While we may like a
FUDcon Aruba, if it's not a real event, you shouldn't be making a logo
for it. 

- If you are using the Fedora sublogo for applications, you
should only fill in the template with the name of an application that
actually exists and is hosted on Fedora's infrastructure. 

- If you are using the Fedora sublogo for groups, you should only fill in the
template with the name of a Fedora SIG or team that actually exists.

Anyway, I am not comfortable having this discussion on this list and would like
to request again that anyone concerned here take their concerns to the
Fedora Board or to Fedora legal. Thanks in advance, I very much appreciate it.

Hope the above helps.

Cheers,
~m