Underlying DE for the Workstation product, Desktop -vs- Workstation

[Alexander GS]

elad wrote:
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"Also, I think we need a modern desktop that supports hi-dpi screens,
touch interface (both are going to be fairly common in laptops very
soon), with modern components (systemd's logind session management,
wayland instead of Xorg).

Can Mate do hi-dpi? Or wayland? Does it support multi-seat
configurations out of the box? Does it have a proper support for
touch-based devices?  An on-screen-keyboard? Integrated cloud services?
Integrated web apps? The answer to all these questions is absolutely
no."
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Touchscreen's on a developer workstation?  That sounds more like a
tablet or media consumption all-in-one device.  Also the Wayland is
still in alpha on Gnome 3 Shell and nowhere near ready.  You're talking
about future events that haven't happened or things that aren't relevant
to desktop workstations.

Recommend that you watch: "Why MATE?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2WSt5cbR4


awilliam wrote:
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You're playing word games, whereas it's pretty clear from the entire
thrust of the Workstation effort on all levels that the definition of
"workstation" you cite is not the one anyone involved (the WG, FESCo
etc) is using.
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Then the Workstation PRD is a misleading document.  It describes the
wrong target markets and ones that are incompatible with the Fedora
Workstation according to whatever definition you happen to hold. In fact
by that same token the Fedora Workstation PRD should be renamed CentOS
Workstation and handed off to the CentOS community.

Also, awilliam please make sure to delete the following from the Fedora
Workstation PRD:

Case 2: Independent Developer
Case 3: Small Company Developer
Case 4: Developer in a Large Organization

If you never actually intend on hitting these targets it's a waste of
time. Just as much as it waste of time to attempt to sell Windows 8
Metro on laptop-tablet-hybrids to a bunch of traditional Windows
workstation users who are dead set on using Windows 7 for the next 5-10
years which happens to be that entire market much to Microsoft's grief.


mcatanzaro wrote:
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Anyway, a modest proposal: I suggest installing GNOME Classic by
default. GNOME Classic is a set of GNOME Shell extensions that are
officially supported by GNOME. I don't suggest using it as the default
session like RHEL is doing, but as an alternative that users could
choose in gdm without having to install it themselves.
---

Gnome Classic is a band-aid, a temporary solution.  If the demand exists
for the classic Gnome 2 experience why not give the user the real thing,
just upgraded slightly? The main problem is that Mate is transitioning
to GTK3 and once that's done things will integrate properly with the
rest of the Gnome applications.  

Also, you haven't tried Mate with a proper compositor. I suggest trying
Compton.  It makes things smooth, tear free and is a really crisp
experience. Arch Linux has a great guide that's been referenced in one
of my previous emails.  If you would like I can share my Compton
configuration files and start-up script.  Once you try Mate with Compton
you won't go back to anything else.


lynn dixon wrote:
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I am one of the more traditional users whom prefer a normal task bar for
managing my time between  many different applications at once.
Cinnamon is quite mature now and has been pretty stable for me. Its
honestly the only reason my coworkers and I have any Gnome software on
our machines.
---

liam.bulkley wrote:
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The intended audience for G3 is exactly the opposite of the user that
Fedora Workstation is targeting.
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Exactly, there's a huge pent-up demand for the traditional Gnome 2
experience just upgraded slightly. Oddly enough if you were to buy a Mac
you could get the full Gnome 2 experience but if you use Gnome Shell or
Unity you cannot.  Even if you look at Chrome OS from Google it doesn't
stray that far from the traditional desktop metaphor.  Chrome OS is much
closer to Gnome 2 than it is to Gnome 3 Shell.  Google knows if it did
something too radical the product wouldn't sell.

That's the whole point of my post. Make it easy for users from other
Linux distributions or from Mac or Windows to transition easily to
something they're familiar with and meets their expectations of what a
desktop workstation should be like. Be ambitious, expand the Fedora
user-base far beyond your own expectations, become a leader in the
Mac/Unix/Linux workstation market.