Graphical Distribution Upgrades

[kendell clark]

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hi
I'll second this. System upgrades sound simple on the surface, but
they're among the hardest to troubleshoot if something goes wrong, so
if we do this, we need to make sure it's as bulletproof as possible,
and that means dealing with nontraditional ... well, pretty much
everything. Strange partition layouts, 3rd party repos, the works. If
we don't, we're likely to get some windows user in our irc channels
... well, being windows users. Why isn't this working, windows "just
works" ... etc. Back on topic. I'd be willing to test this if a
graphical distro upgrader ever becomes available, especially for
accessibility. Could I make a request while I'm at it? If one is
implemented, would it be possible to have an upgrade screen similar to
the fedora welcome screen, but containing upgrade progress messages
and a progress bar? I know plymouth method is easier but there's no
way for accessibility tools to get at that info so I'm stuck looking
at a redhat logo and some text I can't read while it upgrades. Of
course, this brings the question of can gdm be upgraded while it's
being used to display that screen? I'm not sure, I'm still new to
fedora, having switched a month ago.
Thanks
Kendell clark
Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux


Christian Schaller wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "drago01" <drago01 at gmail.com> To: "Discussions about
>> development for the Fedora desktop"
>> <desktop at lists.fedoraproject.org> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015
>> 8:33:00 AM Subject: Re: Graphical Distribution Upgrades
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Florian Weimer
>> <fweimer at redhat.com> wrote:
>>> On 04/06/2015 10:56 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>>>> Broken from the "Summary of Reddit thread".
>>>> 
>>>> Fedora's lack of a graphical major-version updater comes up 
>>>> constantly. I think it's probably time to start brainstorming
>>>> how to solve it, with a stated intention of having things
>>>> work for upgrading Fedora 23 -> Fedora 24 *at minimum* and an
>>>> ideal situation of having Fedora 22 -> Fedora 23 upgrades
>>>> work (with changes made during Fedora 22's stable lifecycle
>>>> to support this).
>>> 
>>> Is this really a good use of development resources?  I mean,
>>> really—if developers are the primary user group, is it
>>> unreasonable to expect that they will use a shell once or twice
>>> per year to perform the upgrades?
>> 
>> That might surprise you but no; there are developers who aren't
>> really used to a terminal and are uncomfortable using it "that's
>> like DOS". Those coming from the Windows side ... the (developer)
>> world does not consists of UNIX (Linux + OS X) users but the vast
>> majority is using Windows. --
> 
> I would also want to point out that being able to use the command
> line isn't the same as wanting to at every opportunity. The
> challenge with command line stuff is that they tend to require more
> work from the users in terms of reading docs or howtos. So while
> using command lines might be quicker and more efficient for stuff
> you want to do on a daily basis, for the reason I explained above
> they can be really annoying for this you do on an irregular basis.
> For instance I personally use git so rarely these days that I have
> to google for the commands everytime I want to tag a release to get
> the syntax right. So I think that even people who like using the
> command line prefer having easy to use graphic tools for tasks they
> don't do all the time, because the graphics tools can be a lot of
> self explanatory if designed well.
> 
> Another example is that there is quite a bit of excitement in the
> Docker community these days about Kitematic, so while one could
> claim that the docker developers are 'command line' people, they
> still like having nice UI tools for certain things.
> 
> And I think the annoyance with command line tools tend to be a bit
> cumulative, so nobody would probably be to annoyed if they had one
> thing they did once a year requiring a set of terminal commands,
> but as things requiring command line interactions add up and you
> feel you need to google for commands on a weekly basis it for sure
> becomes an annoyance, especially if you know that other operating
> systems do not require this of you.
> 
> So we don't have the resources of course to provide UI tools for
> every possible task out there, but I think system upgrades is such
> a core thing of your system that we want to make it feel polished
> and effortless.
> 
> Christian
> 
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