LAS F22 review - summary

kendell clark coffeekingms at gmail.com
Fri Jun 5 19:51:46 UTC 2015


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Ah, gotcha. I should've been a lot clearer, but it was late lol. My
comments were directed at the review on las, not your email. Most of
it was great, there was just the bit about proprietary drivers and
fonts I didn't quite like.
Thanks
Kendell clark


Enrico Tagliavini wrote:
> For sure I do very well agree with you with
> 
> "I think part of the issue is also that the nvidia and ati
> proprietary drivers lag behind the latest kernel, so fedora would
> have to put extra effort into keeping them working, and they just
> don't want to, which I holeheartedly applaud. If you need 
> proprietary drivers, by all means, get them, but don't knock
> fedora for not turning into ubuntu, please."
> 
> That was not the point of my email at all, just want to make it
> clear :).
> 
> Best regards. Enrico
> 
> On 5 June 2015 at 10:46, kendell clark <coffeekingms at gmail.com>
> wrote: hi I'm no purist, but my main beef with that review, and
> it's a minor one, most of it was great is the fact that unless a
> proprietary driver is a click away and it "just works" the
> assumption is no one will use linux, and by extension, fedora.
> Fedora cannot and probably will not ever include proprietary
> drivers for graphics cards and such. Firmware is an exception, and
> I don't know how they manage this, but drivers are another story. I
> think part of the issue is also that the nvidia and ati proprietary
> drivers lag behind the latest kernel, so fedora would have to put
> extra effort into keeping them working, and they just don't want
> to, which I holeheartedly applaud. If you need proprietary drivers,
> by all means, get them, but don't knock fedora for not turning into
> ubuntu, please. Note that this is directed at the review, not at
> this last email. Thanks Kendell clark
> 
> 
> Enrico Tagliavini wrote:
>>>> Hi Kendell,
>>>> 
>>>> well you might be lucky enough not to need proprietary
>>>> drivers and this add a lot of benefits both in practical
>>>> terms and also in ethics if you believe in free software.
>>>> That said if you don't support proprietary driver you
>>>> basically cut out people from using Fedora. The only and main
>>>> reason I don't suggest Fedora to my friends starting with
>>>> Linux is it misses NVIDIA proprietary drivers support and
>>>> bumblebee packages [1]. Granted there is rpmfusion for the
>>>> drivers.... but bumblebee is another story. The repo
>>>> mentioned in the fedora wiki is not really up to quality
>>>> standard, at all. But I digress.
>>>> 
>>>> People do want their hardware to work well, if they bought
>>>> Nvidia they want to use it and nouveau doesn't quite cut it
>>>> (no offence meant here, but the overall experience is not up
>>>> to expectation for the average user). Speaking for myself
>>>> now: I just got a Dell Alienware 15. It has an nvidia optimus
>>>> system. The reason why I choose this system is because I want
>>>> to play steam games on it and I want to play on Linux. Intel
>>>> is great, I love it and I usually play with Intel when it
>>>> works (the driver is improving dramatically and a lot of
>>>> stuff just works nowadays), but for some game you need some
>>>> extra push. So I got the nvidia driver from rpmfusion
>>>> applied a very minor adjustment to make it play nice with
>>>> bumblebee, got bumblebee and bbswitch SRPMs from ELrepo (yes
>>>> that's right) and recompiled for Fedora. This is easy for me,
>>>> for the average user is impossible.
>>>> 
>>>> If you are a free software purist I can understand this is 
>>>> disturbing, I'm the first one being so happy when I can just
>>>> use the Intel open source driver. But the average computer
>>>> user is not a free software purist. Giving the user the
>>>> option to use proprietary drivers, but sticking to open one
>>>> by default, doesn't mean the distro is not supporting free
>>>> software. It means you are also supporting non free software
>>>> and you give you users the choice.
>>>> 
>>>> That said I do agree proprietary stuff can stay in rpmfusion.
>>>> It doesn't have to be in the official repo at all to be easy
>>>> and available. A good start would be to include
>>>> rpmfusion-*-release RPMs in fedora official repo and possibly
>>>> doing something along the lines of the Ubuntu additional
>>>> driver tool to switch between available drivers.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards Enrico
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [1] Unless I'm 100% sure they are not going to use nvidia
>>>> ever and if it is a system I know it works well out of the
>>>> box. Also note I'm not talking about fglrx here. I've been
>>>> the maintainer of fglrx gentoo package for a couple of years
>>>> and I know very well how painful it is. It would simply harm
>>>> the Fedora graphic stack given how slow AMD is adding support
>>>> to new Xorg and kernel release. So I'm not in favour of
>>>> providing all proprietary drivers. If open source packages
>>>> have to fulfil quality standards, that should be true for
>>>> proprietary drivers as well.
>>>> 
>>>> On 4 June 2015 at 22:53, kendell clark
>>>> <coffeekingms at gmail.com> wrote: hi I've watched both, and the
>>>> jist seems to be something on the order of "well, fedora is
>>>> nice, but it needs to make proprietary bits easier because
>>>> people need them." I don't think I quite agree with that, for
>>>> all sorts of reasons. It's why I switched to fedora, because
>>>> it sticks to it's open source principals. Thanks Kendell
>>>> clark
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>>>>>>> They have a follow-up review here: 
>>>>>>> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/8 
>>>>>>> 3062/disjunctive-normal-fedora-lup-95/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't watched it yet.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> -- desktop mailing list desktop at lists.fedoraproject.org 
>>>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
>> -- desktop mailing list desktop at lists.fedoraproject.org 
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
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