the state of open source accessibility

Tue Oct 27 12:33:54 UTC 2015

hi
This would be fantastic. Myself, I'd like to see open source software
that works like skype, but isn't skype. SOmething that can import skype
contacts, and then use something open on the backend to call them. Sip
comes to mind, or webrtc. I don't think something like this exists, but
if the skype protocol were ever reverse engineered, at least to the
point that a compatible replacement could be developed enough to act as
a bridge ... I don't know that I like the state of things. Linux gaming
is getting extremely popular and competetive with windows, but the main
force behind that is proprietary. Valve is opening up parts of their
infrastructure but their main moneymaker is not. I'm not criticizing
valve's efforts in linux space that's a great thing. But it seems rather
ironic to me and a little ominous that most of the "popular"
applications are all closed because they can make things easy where the
open source ones cannot. At least that's the impression I get from
people when I ask them why they use chrome. Oh it's easy and it just
works and so on. It also ties into the google infrastructure. This is
worse in the accessibility community because the vast majority of those,
at least on linux, are not usable by us. Firefox is the most accessible
browser, with epiphany coming in at second. Most softphones are
accessible, with a few having various  minor bugs. I struggle to get
people to drop the proprietary speech synthesizers they're used to and
get resistance there, have issues with that myself sometimes. AndThe
nvidia driver is an endless circle I don't see a solution for. Nvidia
binary driver works so well because nvidia has information about how
their graphics chips work they will not share with the open source
community. Maybe some people don't care as long as it works but myself
I'm inclined to use an open source driver even with issues, if for no
other reason than to poke such companies in the eye and to show my
support for all the hard work you guys do. And if anyone can get nouveau
working perfectly, it's you guys at redhat, I have every confidence.
this is not on topic so I'll change the subject so as not to confuse
people. I forgot to in line quote, I apologize. I'll make sure to do
that next time, I only remembered it right at the end of the message.
Thanks
Kendell clark
Skype is still dominent despite all my efforts at getting people off of
it. This is *not* fedora's fault though, just me banging my head against
the wall.

On 10/27/2015 06:00 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
> Hi Kendell,
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "kendell clark" <coffeekingms at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" <desktop at lists.fedoraproject.org>
>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:59:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Red Hat Engineer plans for Fedora Workstation 24
>>
>> hi
>> Just a bit of a nit tfor me to pick at. Why are we making it easy for
>> people to install proprietary software like skype, steam and chrome?
>> Seems to me we're just making open source software that much harder to
>> adopt when people can simply fall back on it.
> If we are trying to compete with proprietary software by frustrating 
> our users we have already lost, and what we find is that people don't
> abandon such software, they abandon Fedora. A good example here is the
> NVidia binary driver, we are the main force behind the open source Nouvou
> driver, and it will always be our default, but trying to force people
> to stay on it even if it doesn't meet their needs doesn't help anyone.
> Our expectation is that Nouvou will quickly become dominant the day it
> works in a way that solves peoples need. The same is true for any
> other software. 
> 
>  Please don't flame me,
>> I've got some valid concerns hear. Skype is inaccessible to us blind
>> people, at least out of the box unless a 32 bit qt accessibility plugin
>> is installed. This can easily be accomplished with sudo dnf install
>> qt-at-spi.i686. Steam and chrome are utterly inaccessible to us. Steam
>> should in theory work because it's qt, but in practice it uses a ton of
>> 32 bit libraries so it would require that same 32 bit qt accessibility
>> plugin. Even with that installed however it's not visible to orca.
>> Chrome should be accessible but according to google, linux just isn't
>> popular enough to add accessibility support into chrome directly. I'd be
>> happy to work with fedora on improving chromium's accessibility and have
>> that percolate into chrome, but from what I've heard, the chromium
>> community is not very open to outside change and would likely reject it.
>> Thanks
>> Kendell clark
> 
> Well our default software will always be open source and hopefully have good
> accessibility support, but once again we don't make anyones life better by trying to keep them from the tools they need. People don't install Skype for the fun of it, they do it do call their grandparents, and if Fedora doesn't help them do that
> they will choose another operating system.
> 
> I will try to look into the accessibility issues of both Steam and Chrome, to see if we can do anything to encourage upstream to adopt our accessibility technologies.
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
>>
>> On 10/26/2015 12:57 PM, Christian Schaller wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> While we haven't gotten F23 out the door yet, the time has come to plan for
>>> Fedora Workstation 24. Here is what we have so far.
>>>
>>> This was originally written for some of our internal planning, but I
>>> thought this content could be of general interest to the community and the
>>> working group. It is basically the areas we are looking at internally at
>>> RH in terms of features to go into Fedora Workstation 24.
>>>
>>> Hopefully publishing this will allow people in the community to align your
>>> efforts with ours. Of course these are just our plans, as it always is
>>> with such things they might slip as we get closer to the actual release.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Codecs
>>> ------------
>>> H264 - I expect us to have sorted through our Koji changes and have this
>>> ready for F24, unless we suddenly start blocking on Cisco. Wim Taymans
>>> should start looking at getting Main support added at some point. People
>>> involved - Kalev Lember (mclasen), Wim Taymans (Kem), Kevin Fenzi
>>> (pfrields)
>>>
>>> Hardware enablement
>>> -------------------
>>> Optimus Handling - Better support in the stack for Optimus systems is
>>> another item I expect us to have ready for Fedora 24. People involved:
>>> Adam Jackson (kem), Ray Strode (mclasen)
>>>
>>> GL Dispatch, EGLstreams and EGL Device - While we would be depending on
>>> NVidia supporting this to make a practical step forward for most users I
>>> expect us to have the framework ready for Fedora 24. People involved -
>>> Adam Jackson (kem)
>>>
>>> GPU passthrough in Boxes - I expect us to be able to land this feature in
>>> time for Fedora 24 unless we end up blocking on the QEMU/KVM team somehow.
>>> People involved - Zeeshan Ali (mclasen)
>>>
>>> Laptop certification improvements - While not directly Fedora related I
>>> expect that we have started doing some serious work in this field by the
>>> time Fedora 24 is out and hopefully can start see some benefit coming out
>>> of it in terms of better Fedora and RHEL support on new laptop hardware.
>>> People involved - Marek Kasik ( Jiri Eischmann)
>>>
>>> Battery life - I am expecting to see some tangible results here in time for
>>> Fedora Workstation 24. Initial discussions with HW partner underway.
>>> People involved - Josh Boyer (pfrields), Laura Abbot (pfrields), Bastien
>>> Nocera (mclasen), Owen Taylor (cschalle)
>>>
>>>
>>> Enterprise features
>>> -------------------
>>> GDM/KDC proxy access - Integrate two-factor authentication into GDM. Allan
>>> Day investigating design. - Allan Day (mclasen), Ray Strode (mclasen),
>>> Alexander Bokovoy (dpal).
>>>
>>> Improve Firefox integration and kerberos handling. Martin Stransky
>>> (jeischma), Simo Source
>>>
>>> libsoup/gssapi integration with kerberos framework. Tomas Popela (jeischma)
>>>
>>> Further improvements in GOA UI in relation to kerberos handling. Derbashi
>>> Ray (mclasen)
>>>
>>> Fleet Commander - I want us to have a initial fleet commander to release
>>> alongside Fedora 24. It should support GNOME, Firefox and LibreOffice.
>>> People involved (Alberto Ruiz)
>>>
>>> Windows RDP remoting - We should tie this into the enterprise login and
>>> make sure freerdp can use it to authenticate with the windows system. We
>>> should try to test it tested by internal IT. People involved - Ondrej Holy
>>> (dblechter), Tomas Popela (jeishma), Oliver Haesller (Internal IT)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> System Polish
>>> -----------------
>>> GUI system upgrade - I expect us to have operating system upgrade available
>>> during the Fedora 23 lifecycle in GNOME Software, enabling people to
>>> upgrade from Fedora 23 to Fedora 24 through GNOME Software. People
>>> involved - Richard Hughes (mclasen) and Kalev Lember (mclasen).
>>>
>>> USB Creator - ideally this should be ready in time for Fedora 23 already.
>>> With full support for Windows, Mac and Linux. People involved - Martin
>>> Briza (jeischma).
>>>
>>> Qt integration - In theory we already got a bit of stuff ready here, but we
>>> need to do some work to ensure that major 3rd party software using Qt are
>>> using the Adwaita theme we made by default. I also hope we can land the
>>> high contrast version in time for Fedora 24. People involved - Martin
>>> Briza (jeischma).
>>>
>>> 3rd party software - I expect us to have and agreement with Matthew Miller
>>> on a final design of labeling and availability of 3rd party software in
>>> time for it to be implemented and available in Fedora 24. So that people
>>> can install major software like Chrome, Skype, Spotify, Steam, Viber and
>>> more through GNOME Software in Fedora Workstation 24. People involved -
>>> Richard Hughes (mclasen), Kalev Lember (mclasen), Matthew Miller (Fedora)
>>>
>>> Wayland - I expect us to be shipping Wayland as default in Fedora 24.
>>> People involved (Jonas Ådahl (mclasen), Olivier Fourdan (kem)  and many
>>> more.
>>>
>>> XDG app in GNOME Software - We need to have the infrastructure ready to
>>> make XDG apps available and upgradable in GNOME Software. People involved
>>> - Richard Hughes (mclasen) and Alex Larsson (mclasen)
>>>
>>> Developer tooling
>>> --------------------
>>> Screencasting - top notch screencasting tool built with Pinos - Wim Taymans
>>> (kem)
>>>
>>> XDG App - We will have Builder ready to make the building and deployment of
>>> XDG-apps very simple for Fedora Workstation 24, targeting a CentOS derived
>>> runtime. People involved - Christian Hergert (mclasen), Alexander Larsson
>>> (mclasen), David King (mclasen)
>>>
>>> More developer tools packages - We should look at ways to package some
>>> major developer tools as XDG app bundles like PyCharm, Visual Studio (?),
>>> MonoDevelop etc. Maybe try to work with upstream projects to make them own
>>> this. People involved - TBD.
>>>
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