rpm groups and fedora: a modest proposal

[Brad Smith]

> For packages that i download by hand...and install by hand...i expect
> the tool to go out of its way to notify me that these packages are
> considered EXTRA_ORDINARY. I think its very unwise for one off
> packages to be grouped in the same way that managed packages(install
> media or online repos) because there isn't an equitable and symmetric
> way to get things like updates for those packages. It needs to be
> obvious to the user that the package management tool can not update
> those one-off packages in a sensible way and further manual
> intervention is needed to keep things shipshape.

That sounds like an excellent idea to me. How should the tools do it?
Would it be safe to assume that any package appearing in *.xml is a
managed package? Perhaps not if users can customize them to group
whatever packages they have installed, wherever they came from. Maybe an
update_source attribute? Or is there some already-there mechanism I
don't know about that would be better suited?

> 
> > So there is a need for grouping info even for "standalone" packages
> > because once they are installed they become part of a group of packages,
> > effective management of which is very important.
> 
> Effective management is important... one-offs can not be effectively
> managed..the management tool does not know how to update them or
> install them via group operations...as such one-offs need to be held
> outside standad listings to make that difference obvious.

I think your definition of management is too narrow here. One-offs can't
be effectively updated (or, as you say, at least ought to be flagged to
the admin knows to keep them manually updated). But there is still a
need to be able to see them in a browse-list for removal, seeing what
all is installed, etc. Thus I still say there's a need for some
mechanism that allows them to fit into the hierarchy.

> -jef"personal posting limit vastly exceeded on this thread...going
> into lurk mode on the list to compensate"spaleta

Please don't. You seem to have a well thought-out agenda here and if you don't contribute then it's not going to go anywhere. =:)

--Brad