No more right click terminal

Toshio Kuratomi toshio at tiki-lounge.com
Fri Jul 15 23:48:29 UTC 2005


On Fri, 2005-07-15 at 13:54 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On 7/15/05, Toshio Kuratomi <toshio at tiki-lounge.com> wrote:
> > I'm prepared to accept that.  Don't think I'm prepared to support it
> > though.  These are ideas to encourage people about the community aspect
> > of Fedora.  Is banning people something that supports or discourages
> > community?  
> 
> You said everyone needs to agree on respecting a boilerplate offtopic
> post.  If people are expected to respect that boilerplate and stop
> posting.. then i think its perfectly reasonable to espect that people
> who dont respect that boilerplate response to be warned and if they
> are habitual abusers asked to leave because they have disrespected
> established agreed apun rules of conduct for the list.  If the
> boilerplate offtopic response can't be relied on to move the
> discussion... I don't see the point really in creating or using that
> boilerplate response.
> 
Do you drive faster than the speed limit if you feel it's safe?  Either
the boilerplate answer will make sense to people and they'll obey it or
they'll feel it's illogical and reply until you ban them and engender
more ill will among those who feel the post was on-topic.

My position is that a polite boiler can keep a lot of these sprawling,
accusatory threads from spiralling so far.  But preventing it through
fear of punishment is the point at which making fedora-devel a better
environment for development starts conflicting with presenting fedora as
an open community project.

> > I think the first impression will be similar to the
> > -maintainers first impression.  Could even be worse unless we set up a
> > parallel fedora-devel-readonly list.  And what about redhat personnel?
> 
> moderation for fedora-devel has been suggested repeatedly to me and in
> the past i have always fought against it. At this point I frankly
> don't care to fight the suggestion any longer. Now that maintainers is
> open as a tool for contributors, the -devel list has lost much of its
> relevancy as a useful tool among contributors... I'm no longer going
> to make the effort to encourage better signal to noise here.  From now
> on, I'm just looking for ideas I agree with and will help make sure
> those ideas make it to the right people.
>  
If the noise is too high and useful discussion comes to occur only on
-maintainers then moderation and banning on -devel is pretty pointless.
If maintaining a good signal:noise ratio on -devel is desired then we'll
have to try voluntary measures first and then try and figure out how bad
the problem still is.

> > One of the original Fedora openness requirements was that discussion was
> > to take place on the fedora-devel list.  Can they be banned?
> 
> Acceptable use policies can still apply to open lists. If everyone
> participating is suppose to agree to respect the boilerplate response
> you proposed that I think its perfectly reasonable to enforce that
> agreement on pain of death.
> 
Contractually, I agree with you.  Perceptually I think it sends the
message that Fedora is courting a community of yes-men.

> > I think banning people is somewhat of a different topic.
> 
> Shrug, feel free to create the boilerplate and use it as you see fit.
> I fully expect certain people to ignore the boilerplate and to
> continue to discuss the material you deemed as off topic.
> 
I expect it too.  But I expect certain others to respect it.  If it cuts
50% of the posts to a thread like this we'll save a hundred messages a
month.

> Right now, my best understanding is that sabayon is meant to fill this
> niche on simplifying how to move a user from defaults to one of a
> number of different profile configurations. I don't know if you can
> easily pull in sabayon profile definitions from one box to another..
> or what it would take to pre-package a profile in an rpm in extras. 
> Something to talk to the sabayon developers about.  It certaintly
> seems like there should be a way to easily trade sabayon profiles
> across machines.
> 
> -jef"sabayon profiles.. collect them all!"spaleta
> 
I agree.  I'll grab the package and we'll see what it can do!

-Toshio
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