Core fonts packaging guidelines writer WANTED

[Hans de Goede]

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> As most of you know server-side fonts accessed through the core X11
> protocol (aka core fonts) were superceded by client-side
> (fontconfig...) fonts in the past years.
> 
> We've finally acknowledged this fact in Fedora 8 by removing xfs and
> the brutal check that killed user X sessions if more fonts were
> misconfigured (the dreaded "can not find font 'fixed'"). IIRC this was
> an OLPC request and I fully support this decision.
> 
> As a result the burden of keeping core fonts working moved from the
> distribution as a whole to the group of people maintaining and using
> the small group of legacy applications that still use them.
> 
> It seems this change was not integrated properly and several core font
> packages slipped in Fedora 8 in a broken state without anyone noticing
> (not through evil intent, just because the affected packages are old
> and
> crufty and the people that stridently defend core fonts use were
> doing something else). For the calendar-impaired, that was before the
> Fonts SIG started its activities.
> 
> To fix this situation, I call for one or several core font users to
> rise to the occasion:
> 
> A. Please join the fonts SIG
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts
> 
> B. Please write well-though core fonts packaging guidelines consistent
> with the objectives of people already doing fonts work for other font
> backends. That means in particular not having core font utilities
> dependencies in font packages
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/FontsPolicy#no-handler-deps
> 
> Several possible technical solutions have already been posted on the
> list, such as:
> 1. pre-generating fonts.* files at %build time or
> 2. duplicating the solution used for the fontconfig backend. That means:
>   a. dynamically generating  fonts.* files in conditionnal scriptlets
> (if core font tools are present on system), and
>   b. have one package responsible for walking the configured core font
> directories and re-generating fonts.* files when installed, and make
> core font apps depend on it (so things still work if a core font
> using app is installed after fonts packages are)
> 
> There may be other solutions, it's up to the core fonts community to
> choose one.
> 
> Do not fall in the facility of brutaly making font packages depend on
> mkfontdir, as a lot of font packages are not exposed only via the core
> X11 protocol and most of their users do not want the core font stack
> installed. (OLPC is such a group).
> 

And here is the problem, when you write "the level of abuse we've seen
from core font users lately" below, I guess you mean mainly me, and I apologize 
as I indeed have wrongly blamed the font SIG for the current breakage.

However the above alinea starting at "Do not fall ..." is simply not 
acceptable, there are 2 and only 2 options here:
1) Leave core font packages as they are, as that has worked well for years, and
    thus have them depend upon mkfontdir and mkfontscale
2) Come up with something new that will not break things, and has the desired
    removal of dependencies upon mkfontdir / mkfontscale

It seems that some people want to see 2, but want someone else to do the work 
for 2, that is simply not acceptable. If someone wants 2 to happen, then its up 
to that person to write new guidelines and drive the effort to make the 
necessary changes.

Just saying that things must change because someone wants that and then looking 
at other people to do the actual work will not work, that is what all the fuzz 
is about, about some people wanting to see this changed and then shoving / 
pushing the work of those changes to the plate of some other people, who are 
quite happy with the current state of affairs.

> C. Please discuss your guidelines on the Fonts SIG list and among core
> fonts users so we have consensus. Then get your guidelines
> officialised
> 
> D. Please audit all the existing core fonts packages and make them
> conform to the resulting core font guidelines, so we don't get
> accidental breakage like right now
> 
> Anyone stepping in to do this will have my complete support, and I
> hope the one of the whole distribution.
> 

And here is the problem again, if some people want to see things changed 
(mainly see the requires upon mkfontdir / mkfontscale removed) then those 
people should be willing to do the work and stop looking for "Anyone stepping 
in to do this". I for one refuse to be that anyone and I will keep complaining 
loudly when things are changed in a way that causes regressions for core font 
users.

> Otherwise Jens has indicated he may end up writing core fonts
> packaging guidelines, but frankly given the level of abuse we've seen
> from core font users lately I'd understand if he passed. And in the
> end core fonts users would be better served by guidelines written by
> less busy people who actually use the core fonts backend.
> 

I think having the work being done by someone who actually want to see things 
changed, and thus is motivated to do the work is an excellent idea. I know as 
little about core fonts as most, all I know is some apps I use use them and I 
don't want to see them broken.

Regards,

Hans