Fedora Freedom and linux-libre

[Hans de Goede]

jeff wrote:
> Hans de Goede wrote:
>> Really, arguing that Fedora's stance is inconsistent, while in reality 
>> yours is doesn't gain you much respect. Either:
>>
>> 1) all firmware is software and must be free in which case support for 
>> evil hardware which comes with the firmware embedded must be removed 
>> from linux-libre!
> 
> No, because the goal of linux-libre is to have a kernel which doesn't 
> distribute non-free software.
> 

Oh, but promoting the usage and buying of devices which contain non-free 
firmware by supporting those is ok, because it isn't non-free firmware that is 
evil. It is the distributing of non-free firmware that is evil. Yes a very 
consistent and logical pov for which I applaud you!

Basicly the message you are sending is: people please by devices with firmware 
in rom, preferably otp rom, because then certainly there is no evil. Not being 
able to ever change the firmware is good, because as long as firmware never 
gets distributed separately from the hardware, we can pretend its not there and 
live our ignorance is bliss lifes thinking that we are in the all software in 
my house is free utopia. Because if I cannot see it it isn't there.

Really that I didn't think of this before, it is so brilliant! I guess I should 
do away with all my PC's and instead switch to an internet appliance device, 
because then I no longer have to worry about whether I have any non-free 
software at all. Certainly if I don't need to install the software myself it 
isn't there at all then.

>> 2) all firmware is considered part of the hardware, independend of the 
>> distribution mechanism of that firmware (the Fedora pov).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---> No, the difference is Fedora is *DISTRIBUTING* the non-free bits.  
> <---

So the goal of linux-libre is to not distribute non-free software. Do you ever 
buy a PC / laptop? If so you're involved in a transaction which almost 
certainly involves the distribution of non-free firmware. Worse, not only are 
you involved in such a transaction, you are _paying_ for the system of which 
the non-free firmware is an integral part and thus you are paying for non-free 
firmware, thereby promoting the production of non-free firmware.

Do you ever sell any of you PC hardware (motherboard, latop, printer) second 
hand and / or give it away to friends / family, then you are *DISTRIBUTING* 
non-free firmware. Really, they should put you in prison for that!

Please stop being so hypocritical.

Putting it simply there are 2 possible stances on non-free firmware:

1) Its evil and as such should be erradicated, therefor I will not buy or use
    any devices with it. Nor will I add support for any devices containing
    non-free firmware to my Free operating system

2) Its evil, but allas it is here, so although we are not in favor it we
    condone it.

The its evil, but ok as long as not distributed vision is just plain 
hypocritical, so you are happy *USING* it, and passing device which contain it 
along to friends / family, but distributing it in a way where it is not hidden 
inside a device is not OK?

Anyways this will be my last mail in this thread, I cannot argue against so 
much hypocrisy and bend around corners logic.

Regards,

Hans