Suggestion Next Release

[Les Mikesell]

Andrew Farris wrote:
>>>
>>> Thats because Apple has chosen not to make it default behavior, not 
>>> because it is not included.
>>
>> And that's because Apple makes some effort to give people a better 
>> experience.
> 
> No.  Apple has offered options, one of which maintains the prior 
> behavior of Apple OS 6.x to 9 (spatial browsing) while also offering 
> other options such as the multi-pane view.

But I'm only concerned about the defaults.

>> I'll control that myself, thank you.
> 
> Ok, good deal.  I'll let the computer help me.

I don't consider putting things where I don't want them to be 'help'.

>>
>>> I suggest you go have a look through gnome development mailing lists 
>>> for discussion on spatial browsing if you really are interested 
>>> (especially if you want to argue it should not be the default for 
>>> upstream).  You might also find this [1] interesting (see point 6).
>>
>> If I understand point 6 to mean that spatial browsing relates more 
>> closely to physical objects, that makes sense and is why I don't like 
>> it.  If I wanted things to be as inconvenient as physical objects I 
>> wouldn't be sitting at a desk using a computer.  I want the objects to 
>> come to me, not to be frozen in some inconvenient distant space.  And 
>> I want them to clean up after themselves better than things in the 
>> physical world.
> 
> Uh huh, so you think that a tree browsing view is somehow much closer to 
> 'not physical' than spatial browsing?

It's closer to putting something where I want it. Spatial browsing is 
more like having to find it where it was left last time.

> You feel that a hierarchy of 
> deeply enclosed directories is easier to access when you're still going 
> one level at a time into the tree than using the spatial browsing mode?  
> Tree views, and opening inside the same window all the time is modeled 
> directly from File Folders within Filing Cabinets.

The navigation is the same either way, but the spatial mode is like 
rooms with 2 doors and one light switch.  As you open the door you turn 
the light on and it remains on when you exit the other door.  Then later 
you have to backtrack and clean up.  I want the light to go off as I 
exit the other door.

> Both are fundamentally flawed ways that we access and organize our files 
> in a computer.  They are both inadequate, and will need to change in the 
> future.  The longer we take to realize this it will postpone real 
> progress in human computer interaction while everyone keeps demanding 
> that things work the way they used to.

I agree here - give me a folder navigation method that doesn't involve 
intermediate windows or having to type names and I could live with the 
position/attributes of the destination windows being attached to the 
destination and not my view.  But I still want an explicit 'open new 
window here' command.

> You can argue that holding down shift, or using middle-doubleclick is 
> inconvenient if you like (I believe it works just fine).  My windows 
> clean up after themselves beautifully.

So why not make the default a normal double-click with a preference 
setting for people who prefer something oddball?

> Point 6 was not saying spatial browsing is a holy grail for the future, 
> its saying that human beings are spatially oriented and naturally think 
> in terms much more akin to spatial browsing.  Memory of where a window, 
> or the file within the window, is supposed to be is very natural for us 
> to remember as we 'browse' through files.  Those files are supposed to 
> be where they last were, hence why having a window show up where you had 
> it last time makes sense.
> 
> It is contrary to the way many people have learned to find their files, 
> and if they don't like it thats understandable; they don't like change.  
> They don't have to embrace change.  But if they are going to claim the 
> change is going backwards I'd like to see more than personal preference 
> in the rhetoric.

The point of a computer is not to emulate the real world, it is so you 
can do this better and easier.  And no one in the real world nests 
folders 10 deep anyway.

>> No argument there, but again, I want the objects/options to come to 
>> me, not to be hiding in locations distant from my mouse pointer, 
>> especially as screens get bigger.
> 
> You're free not to use your body's motor memory to your advantage if you 
> want.
> 
> What you prefer is fine for you; I will take offense to you calling 
> spatial browsing wrong however... it is what I and many other people 
> prefer.

I don't have any problem with preference settings to enable it.  There 
are just too many things that are inconvenient about it to have it as a 
default - and in any case there should be an option to flip the 
mouse/keboard commands for the choice of whether the window stays open 
or not.

-- 
   Les Mikesell
    lesmikesell at gmail.com