Pulseaudio : lots of issues, how can I help?

Matthew Woehlke mw_triad at users.sourceforge.net
Fri Sep 12 22:36:20 UTC 2008


Colin Walters wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Matthew Woehlke
> <mw_triad at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>> Colin Walters wrote:
>>> We're going to be removing the legacy non-X system consoles by default
>>> in the long run.
>> Um... what happens then when X is broken?
> 
> What happens when the linux kernel is broken?

...then you boot from a disk with a bootable kernel.

> What happens when /bin/sh is broken?

Hmm... then you probably need a rescue disk to replace /bin/sh.

> What happens when NetworkManager is broken?

You fix it :-). You've degenerated from errors that result in an 
unusable system (meaning: cannot boot to a command prompt from which, at 
the least, basic repair tools are available) to errors that are 
potentially mere annoyances.

Let's go back to my question:

>> What happens when X is broken?

Then you boot in non-X mode.

Oh, wait. You want to remove non-X mode. You want me to have to go find 
a rescue disk, just because 'yum update nvidia' wasn't such a good idea? 
No, thanks; I'd rather have X fail to start and dump me at a normal 
console from which I can fix the problem *without rebooting*, much less 
needing to dig up a rescue disk :P.

Currently non-functioning X is like non-functioning network; annoying, 
but not crippling (kernel still works, shell still works, still possible 
to run commands, do debugging, etc., without rebooting or a rescue 
disk). You're proposing to make it a system-crippling problem. I will 
suggest that making a known-fragile component *required* for a 
functional system, including any chance of repair (short of a rescue 
disk), is the worst idea I've heard in a while. (But I /have/ heard it 
before. It's called "Windows". YTH do we want to copy /that/?)

...not to mention that X is bloated and completely unneeded overhead on 
servers. Even Microsoft realizes this; I hear 2008 has a non-GUI mode 
for exactly this reason.

> Also, one thing I would like to see Fedora install by default is a
> compressed recovery image, rather than just multiple kernels.

That would help, but would still require rebooting all the time until X 
is working (anyone say "PITA"?). Currently, "bad kernel" is the only 
situation that needs a reboot to test if it works. (Well, non-working 
/bin/sh depends on why it is non-working; if it's a bad binary, you can 
try to run it as a subshell, so no reboot needed. If it's an interaction 
with other bits of the system, it might fall into the 'needs reboot to 
test' category. But non-working X currently is comfortably NOT in the 
'needs reboot' category.)

-- 
Matthew
What? This signature /again/?




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