Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?

[Terry Barnaby]

On 11/26/2009 05:05 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 6:01, Terry Barnaby <terry1 at beam.ltd.uk> wrote:
>
>> Ok, controversial title.
>>
>> I have just tried to test install F12 on some of my systems, (5
>> different ones).
>> All of these bar 1 has problems with the graphics (X11 lockups, system
>> lockups
>> and other problems) mainly in 3D but also in 2D.
>> I still am using F8 on most of my systems as the Graphics systems have
>> not
>> been stable enough for 3D in Fedora since around those times.
>>
>> I know there is a lot of work going on in the graphics front, I myself
>> have worked on and fed back issues as time and ability allow. During F11
>> I helped with some issues, but unfortunately none of these made it
>> back into
>> updates for F11 and now F12 is out with yet more issues.
>>
>> The Linux kernel is generally relatively stable, as is the main system
>> libraries etc in Fedora. The core issues most people seem to be facing
>> is Graphics and Sound issues. Obviously a major issue with Graphics is
>> the sheer
>> number of different graphics chip sets in use and the lack of
>> documentation
>> for quite a few of them. Due to this it requires a lot of user testing
>> and
>> feedback to get these issues sorted out. Unfortunately the very fast
>> Fedora new release schedule gets in the way of getting this testing done
>> and things do not get fixed prior to a new release which introduces yet
>> another set of problems. The new release speed also uses a lot of
>> developer and user time in just managing to create a new release and
>> updating systems to use it.
>>
>> I know the quick release cycle is one of Fedora's features in its aim to
>> be close to the leading edge, but this has to be balanced with
>> usability otherwise there will be few people actually using it in
>> anger and thus
>> actually testing the software. This could lead to the demise of Fedora.
>>
>> As an idea, at this stage, how about canceling the F13 release and
>> just fixing and updating the F12 release ? This will concentrate
>> developers and users into one system release. Similar to the
>> pre-release test days we could have
>> post-release test days. For example a Graphics test day for F12 where
>> a certain set of tests with a test suite and a set of well known
>> applications
>> could be run. As F12 would be out longer, more people could
>> participate in this.
>> If a commitment, all round, to producing updates fixing the issues in
>> F12 were made, I think more people would be willing to participate as
>> users could
>> expect to see a stable system for their efforts.
>
> You make the assumption that if fedora stopped, so would upstream. You
> also state that the kernel is stable, yet most of the graphics work is
> going on at the kernel level so we have to continue to bring in new
> kernels to pick up these changes.
>
> Graphics work is not a fedora issue alone. It is an upstream issue first
> and formost. By abandoning upstream and trying to stagnate will
> ultimatly damage upstreams ability to gennew changes tested and released.
>
> --
> Jes
>
I'm not suggesting F12 should not be updated, in fact the opposite.

As you state most of the Graphics work is being done up-stream, but it is
the distributions role to package, release and allow users to test this
and feed back bugs. I am saying that a focus on Graphics with a quick
update cycle will help upstream get the testing they need and the users
to get fixes.

Actually a question on the Mesa packages, these are packaged as version
7.6-0.13 in F12. It seems however, that this is packaged from Mesa's 7.7-devel 
tree. I think the mesa developers have branched 7.6 as a stable branch
and moved new development to 7.7. Shouldn't F12's Mesa packages have a 7.7 
version number ??