FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

James Antill james at fedoraproject.org
Wed Mar 3 16:02:51 UTC 2010

On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 07:38 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> James Antill wrote:
> >>  I
> >> want many updates, but I don't want to be the guinea pig for updates
> >> which just hit testing,
> > 
> >  And nobody else wants to be the guinea pig for _you_.
> People who use updates-testing under the current system are signing up to 
> doing testing. Under your proposal, they'd be forced to sign up to get any 
> current updates.

 Get current updates => so they can be tested!

> >>  and I also don't want to have to selectively update
> >> because it's a mess.
> > 
> >  Why's that? Maybe because of the sheer volume of updates ... because of
> > packagers like...
> No, because updates may depend on previous updates to work properly. We 
> can't possibly test or support all possible combinations of updates.

 We can't _now_ ... because of packagers like you who want to release
lots of updates with no or almost no testing!
 If we had less updates, that changed less things and required more
testing before pushing them to users ... this would be entirely

> >>  Do you want users of stable to suffer through KDE
> >> bugs or be forced to use testing?
> > 
> >  Again with the "suffering users" because they don't get 6GB of updates
> > a month? I think not, and I'm not alone.
> They're suffering because their bugs are not getting fixed.

 No, there's suffering because you are breaking their computers with
your updates (which has been pointed out to you many times in this

> >  mine allows people who want to get lots of packages to do so
> Only by using updates-testing => you're effectively forcing those people to 
> use updates-testing.

 No, I for one will not be just enabling updates-testing if my proposal
is passed. Again, I imagine that the major of users will not do this ...
and will be happier to have a smaller number of tested updates.
 You are _forcing_ people to use updates-testing because there is
nothing else ... things can't be tested by the time they hit "updates",
so updates is de. facto. "updates-testing".

> >  and those who have a working system to not be forced to test your package
> >  of the week.
> They're not testing it, they're receiving it already tested.

 Except that it breaks ... but of course that's their problem, not
yours ... right?

 I think I'm starting to see a pattern here:

. Kevin doesn't use DVD updates, so anything that needlessly breaks DVD
updates is fine because DVD updates are worthless.

. Kevin doesn't use selective updates, so packagers doing less work and
not testing for selective updates is fine because selective updates are

. Kevin doesn't use --security, so packagers ignoring security issues is
fine because --security is worthless.

. Kevin doesn't mind restarting KDE after updates, so any users
complaining their desktop doesn't work after an update can be ignored.

. Kevin likes lots of updates, and having them forced onto others so
they get tested for him, so anything that provides more updates is good
and anything that slows them down for testing is bad.

...if only someone had let me know that Fedora had become your personal

James Antill - james at fedoraproject.org

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