Changes in Java packaging guidelines - RFC

Ville Skyttä ville.skytta at
Wed Nov 3 20:28:33 UTC 2010

On Wednesday 03 November 2010, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le mercredi 03 novembre 2010 à 21:32 +0200, Ville Skyttä a écrit :
> > On Wednesday 03 November 2010, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> > > Le mercredi 03 novembre 2010 à 19:27 +0200, Ville Skyttä a écrit :
> > > > 3) In my opinion, the whole alternatives setup in the JRE and SDK
> > > > packages should be purged.  It's a relic from times that are long
> > > > gone,
> > > 
> > > Having a semi-sane way to install multi-vendor multi-version JVMs is
> > > still needed EPEL side. Expensive apps like SAP still make you install
> > > the specific JVM they've been qualified against.
> > 
> > But such JVMs do not need to be made the system default at all, people
> > can just run $expensive_app with it by whatever means they like (e.g.
> > direct modification of $PATH, $JAVA_HOME, etc _for that specific app_).
> When you pass a certain level of expensiveness, ISVs just assume the
> *only* jvm on the system will be the one they require (quite simply the
> software price is many times the price of hardware, so there is no
> reason to share the hardware with anything else).

Ok.  So again, for what do you need the alternatives stuff for in this 

Either you abide by their assumption and just install their JVM and no others 
(no alternatives needed because The Can Be Only One), or you don't and install 
several JVMs or only the Fedora/EL one at which point you've already broken 
their expectation and thus their support may be in a so-so state (no 
alternatives needed because the damage is already done (alternatives or not) 
or there is only the one Fedora/EL JVM installed).

> It never ceases to astonish me how software “giants” have come to depend
> on the quick and dirty hacks we did JPackage-side æons agos, and never
> thought of redirecting some of their huge cash flow to fund something a
> little more robust.

Ditto.  But in retrospect, I wish we hadn't bent over and done those hacks :(
But that was a long time ago, those were different times and it's easy to be 
smart later.  I still believe it's time to stop encouraging use of that cruft, 
at the very least in Fedora, then later in slower moving distros.

More information about the devel mailing list