Ubuntu moving towards Wayland

Jon Masters jonathan at jonmasters.org
Tue Nov 9 15:23:22 UTC 2010

On Tue, 2010-11-09 at 16:09 +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
> On 11/09/2010 10:05 AM, Jon Masters wrote:
> > On Sat, 2010-11-06 at 08:43 +0000, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> >> On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 01:36:43AM +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
> >>> On 11/06/2010 12:21 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 03:16:11PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> >>>>> Richard W.M. Jones (rjones at redhat.com) said:
> >>>>>>> Has anyone looked into bringing Wayland to Fedora? If not this might be the
> >>>>>>> right time getting involved in the discussion.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What's the implication for people who absolutely need to use
> >>>>>> X applications remotely?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Use VNC. (Or your similar protocol of choice.)
> >>>>
> >>>> That's not a serious alternative.
> >>>
> >>>    From what I've read so far you can run rootless X as a Wayland client so
> >>> you can just use your remote X apps like you did in the past next to native
> >>> Wayland apps. Also if there is a real interest in this feature then this
> >>> could be implemented for Wayland it would just not be part of the core.
> >>
> >> And what happens when all the apps are native Wayland apps and
> >> none of those can be run remotely?
> >>
> >> If I wanted to step back to the pre-net era, I'd run Windows.
> >
> > +1 for bringing these points up. No offense to krh (because it's nice
> > technology) but you can pull my genuine networked applications from my
> > cold dead hands. I agree that I see this ongoing trend to move toward
> > things that are fluffy and pretty at the cost of flexibility.
> Looks more like a case of crying wolf to me. It's probably going to take a 
> year before Wayland can be turned on as the default desktop and it's 
> probably going to take several years before X can possibly go away so to 
> use this kind of hyperbole is really just flamebait.

> It's fine to bring your concerns up but please postpone this "we are all 
> going to die" routine until we *actually* have something to complain about.

At which point, it's too late. Unless Server-y people point out that
things like network apps actually matter, the default path may be to do
what will look nice on a local desktop (for the record, I can see full
screen tearing-free graphics both using upstream Intel and upstream ATI
drivers - one on a laptop, one dual headed desktop - just fine already).

Like Rich, I enjoy being able to start e.g. rawhide apps running on a
virtual machine and have them render to my local X server, or start a
second X and have an entire gnome-session running from a rawhide "box"
sitting on my virt server. Also, although there are other ways to do it,
my typical use of virt-manager these days is by forwarded X over ssh.


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