Services that can start by default policy feedback

Toshio Kuratomi a.badger at
Fri Feb 25 20:46:10 UTC 2011

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 06:22:25PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 09:46:08AM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 06:32:44PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > > There are no essential services, which means any proposal that contains 
> > > the phrase "non-essential services" is already unimplementable.
> > > 
> > You've said this many times and it seems that you do it to be
> > obstructionist.  The constructive way to deal with this is to start making
> > a list of what people really mean by "essential" and then propose alternate
> > words to use.
> Like Jesse said, my objection here is that using the word "essential" 
> just results in us being doomed to argue over what "essential" means. 
> A literal interpretation of "essential" means "start init and have it 
> launch a getty". I don't think anyone's advocating that that be the 
> outcome of a vanilla Fedora install. An alternative would be "Essential 
> for a traditional UNIX experience", which would seem to preclude dbus. I 
> don't think that's a rational outcome either. So we end up with 
> "Essential for providing an experience consistent with what we feel a 
> vanilla Fedora install should provide", which means you haven't actually 
> defined "essential" at all. So don't say "essential". Say what you mean.
> > I think, by essential, some people mean:
> > 
> > start the bare minimum so I don't have to start any additional services to:
> > 
> > ... I don't want anything but init and a shell [*]
> > ... log into a getty
> > ... log in over the network
> > ... log into a desktop
> > ... do any client-side operations
> That's my point. If people have different interpretations of "essential" 
> then any policy using the word "essential" is meaningless. You need to 
> define "essential" - and if you're doing that then you don't need to use 
> the word in the first place.
And my point is that instead of telling people "there are no essential
survices" and therefore jsut leading people to argue about the meaning of
a word, it's much more helpful to try to figure out these definitions that
they are using the word to mean and then, if the word still bothers you,
assign a different word then essential to it.

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