systemd: please stop trying to take over the world :)

Peter Robinson pbrobinson at gmail.com
Sat Jun 11 11:03:33 UTC 2011


On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Genes MailLists <lists at sapience.com>wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 03:13 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>
>
> > what would be really nice is to redirect systemd discussions to its
> > upstream mailing list.  Fedora devel is hardly the best place for it.
> >
> > Rahul
>
>  Beg to differ - rather vehemently too - politely but vehemently.
>
>  systemd is only available in fedora[1] - we are the test pigs for
> better or for worse - and there are most certainly bugs in fedora's
> systemd.
>

Both opensuse and meego are moving to it currently and it will be in their
next releases. Fedora being the first isn't surprising as Red Hat employed
people are the leads on the project and its one of our four foundations. I
would be be very surprised if there weren't bugs, its the first rewrite of
the init system for decades. Fedora 14's init system isn't that different to
the first version of RHL (4.0) I started using back in 96.


>  Lets be blunt here - he pushed very very very hard on these very lists
> to get systemd in - now its in F15 and there are problems - so no
> punting please. Upstream and fedora are the same for systemd.
>

Not sure what your point is here.


>  Some bugs like sendmail failing to start have been there since
> September 2010 ( almost 9 months ... ) - people are reporting the same
> issue on F15 in the fedora lists  ... who is fixing this stuff ?
>
>  e.g.
>
>  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=692008
>  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=633774
>

Reading through both of those bugs they both look to be a regression in the
handling of NetworkManager dispatcher scripts [1] which are now fixed and
should be in stable [2] since 2nd June have you bothered to test this and
update the bugs? Its unfortunate the problem with the dispatcher scripts
wasn't picked up prior to release but the bug was fixed upstream by the NM
maintainer in a day once it was reported [3].


>  Ok so he's on vacation - this is a very core part of the OS - who is
> backing him up I wonder? Who else is on the project?
>

A number of people, but as pointed out above its not necessarily always
systemd's fault. System startup is a complex process and has a lot of
interdependencies.


>  Surely you're not saying there is no-one else working on systemd...
> and when LP is away/busy nothing will get done ... otherwise I strongly
> urge it be replaced by upstart asap.
>

That's certainly not the case, you only have to look as far as the upstream
mailing list to see that. The fact that Ubuntu is the only project now
sticking with upstart (and i believe it was actually used by Fedora in a
mainline release first too) shows its uptake. A lot of projects will have a
lead architect that is the main driving force behind the project in the
early stages of the project, systemd is certainly not alone here. In fact if
you bothered to go and look at upstart I think you'll find its the same
there, and what's more with everyone moving to systemd there's likely a lot
less people working on upstart.

Peter

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=703321
[2]
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/NetworkManager-0.8.9997-1.git20110531.fc15
[3] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649773
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