GNOME3 and au revoir WAS: systemd: please stop trying to take over the world :)

Evandro Giovanini efgiovanini at gmail.com
Sat Jun 18 03:36:06 UTC 2011


Em Sex, 2011-06-17 às 22:47 -0400, Scott Schmit escreveu:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 07:31:43AM -0300, Evandro Giovanini wrote:
> > Em Sex, 2011-06-17 às 11:55 +0200, Ralf Corsepius escreveu:
> > > Well, it's obvious to me Gnome 3 is trying to immitate W7, OS X and iOS, 
> > > but ... may-be you may want to think about why users are not using these 
> > > and are using Linux instead?
> > > 
> > > One of the reasons used to be the Gnome2 DE being different from these 
> > > rsp. these other OSes not meeting this user's groups demands.
> > > 
> > > In other words: IMO, due the way Gnome3 is taking, Gnome 3 has thrown 
> > > away one of the key-advantages it had offered (and has become a W7 etc. 
> > > immitation cult) and thus has become non-interesting to at least some 
> > > Linux-users (e.g. me).
> > > 
> > > That said, IMO, Gnome 3 should be added a "classic" GUI-design, with 
> > > toplevel menus/cascaded, file-browser etc.
> > > 
> > > To me personally, Gnome 3 is the primary cause for currently evalutating 
> > > other distros and other DEs, and the primary (the secondary is systemd) 
> > > cause for not upgrading to Fedora 15.
> > > 
> > 
> > I'm not really sure I get what you're asking for here. GNOME 3 does have
> > the "classic" (Win95-like) design installed by default and all you have
> > to do is enable fallback mode in order to use it. 
> 
> I feel that this statement is disingenuous; everything I have read about
> fallback mode has made it extremely clear that it's intended as a
> temporary measure until graphics drivers are up to snuff. It may be
> available now, but it sounds to me like the plan is for it to go away.
> 

I'm not sure what is disingenuous about it; gnome-panel 3.0 and metacity
3.0 are here and they're working. In fact, the panel saw a significant
amount of work done in the 3.0 cycle:
http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/04/13/gnome-panel-is-dead,-long-live-gnome-panel!

I'm actually using fallback mode in one of my systems and would strongly
disagree that recommending something I use is being disengenuous in any
way. 

Threatning the developers of Fedora or GNOME because someone read that
something might go away in the future is silly. It's here and it works
(also, even more work is being done for 3.2 with more applets being
ported over to the new architecture). gnome-panel and metacity will work
in Fedora until not a single person is interested in maintaining it.

> > In addition to that the GNOME Shell is highly customizable and you can
> > have a traditional application menu right on the top menu bar if you'd
> > like. You can check out the extensions available in Fedora, the ones
> > here [1] and several others you can search on Google. The GNOME
> > developers are also working on a website to make installing and managing
> > extensions as easy as it is with Firefox.
> > 
> > Evandro
> > 
> > [1]. http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html
> 
> Except that this feature was originally only intended for rapid
> prototyping--changes to GNOME3 can and probably will break many
> extensions (lack of versioning, etc). I've heard nothing yet that says
> this will change, and at least one voice that implies that it either
> definitely won't change or should go away ("extensions dilute the GNOME3
> brand").
> 

Yes, things are still very much in development and can break at any
major version. That doesn't change the fact that upstream is working on
improving that, with a website for managing extensions and themes. And
concerns over diluting the brand were raised and properly addressed by
the gnome-shell maintainer and others, and work on the above continues
to happen as we speak. I don't expect any changes in Fedora 15 to break
any of the extensions you might find out there.

> Anyway, what you're really saying is that users are free to develop
> their own patches to GNOME3 (albeit in Javascript instead of C). That's
> tantamount to saying "if you don't like it, you can always fork the
> code!" It also ignores that not all users are developers or that not all
> those who are want to rewrite/modify GNOME3.

No, I'm not. There are several working extensions *today*, I'm simply
suggesting that people not 100% satisfied with the default GNOME 3
experience go out there and experiment with them. 

It's definitely easier to install an extension even today than to
migrate to an entirely different distribution with a completely
different desktop environment and default set of applications. If people
want to do that instead of simply uncompressing a tarball in
~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions, they're free to do so. 

Evandro




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