/usrmove? -> about the future

[Nils Philippsen]

On Mon, 2012-02-13 at 09:28 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-02-13 at 14:47 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> > On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 11:08 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > Let me put it this way, then: Fedora is released on a six month cycle,
> > > which is far faster than is usually considered desirable for server
> > > usage. It has a 13 month lifetime, which is far shorter than is usually
> > > considered desirable for server usage. Its key values and goals are
> > > assuredly not compatible with typical server usage - e.g. "First - We
> > > believe in the power of innovation and showing off new work in our
> > > releases. Since we release twice a year, you never have to wait long to
> > > see the latest and greatest software, while there are other Linux
> > > products derived from Fedora you can use for long-term stability. We
> > > always keep Fedora moving forward so that you can see the future first."
> > > There are numerous practical policies derived from these values which
> > > are clearly not optimal for server usage, such as the short freeze
> > > times, relatively low barrier of entry to disruptive features, and QA
> > > focus on installation and basic desktop use (we do virtually no QA on
> > > any kind of server usage). Finally, there are *several* Linux
> > > distributions available which have none of the above 'shortcomings' (so
> > > far as server usage is concerned).
> > 
> > I'd say the same 'shortcomings' also hurt the end user case. The
> > non-technical people I deal with loathe how we often introduce new
> > features and break stuff (or just their way of doing things) in the
> > process, even in updates -- I've stopped counting the "Oh, updates. I
> > wonder what you guys have broken now."-style comments by my wife. To me,
> > Fedora is much better suited to be run on servers than by end users --
> > admins usually can help themselves in these situations.
> > 
> > Don't take this as being against the slew of features Fedora introduces:
> > personally I'm much in favor of systemd, the /usr move, pulseaudio and
> > all that stuff -- there's no point in just treading water and being on
> > the forefront of things is where Fedora is supposed to be. But let's not
> > kid ourselves into thinking that with a life-cycle of only 13 months and
> > the amount of change we introduce in each new release (especially on the
> > desktop) we're somehow catering to end users who don't have a
> > technically skilled spouse, relative or friend in the background to help
> > if things don't work as expected.
> 
> That also, at least arguably, isn't Fedora's aim (if it was, we'd be
> doing a terrible job of it, I agree). To cite the Board again:
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_base
> 
> "Voluntary Linux consumer
> Computer-friendly
> Likely collaborator
> General productivity user"
> 
> Those four - especially 'computer-friendly' and 'likely collaborator' -
> don't scream 'end user' to me. My personal take has always been that
> Fedora is not the friendly desktop operating system of today, but a
> *prototype* of the friendly desktop operating system of tomorrow. A
> constantly moving prototype - so it never sits still and becomes the
> friendly desktop operating system of today. :)

Of course :-). In the light of that however, I don't really understand
the "Fedora is not for servers" arguments brought forth every so
often... Fedora is not well-suited if what you want is longevity, full
stop. Disregarding that point, Fedora on a server is quite
hassle-free :-).

Nils
> -- 
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
> http://www.happyassassin.net
> 

-- 
Nils Philippsen      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase 
Red Hat               a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils at redhat.com       nor Safety."  --  Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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