*countable infinities only

Jay Sulzberger jays at panix.com
Tue Jun 12 20:16:17 UTC 2012

On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Bill Nottingham <notting at redhat.com> wrote:

>  > Jay Sulzberger (jays at panix.com) said: 
> > There is here no irrestible tide.  Rather, Fedora is jumping to
> > surrender before engagement.
> > 
> > Secret discussions with Microsoft is perhaps part of this
> > engagement.  But such discussion is not the whole battle.
> > 
> > Fedora should call a conference to organize fighting back, rather
> > than attempting to defend on this list the serious tactical
> > error which Fedora is about to commit.
> No offense, but you seem to have a very unusual idea about how much leverage
> Fedora has anywhere. Why would hardware vendors listen to a community
> distribution that they never preinstall, have no plans to preinstall, and
> brings them absolutely no money?
> Bill

Certainly Lenovo and Dell and others have no incentive to do
business with us if we agree that what they are doing today is
not only tolerable to us, but indeed we agree with them in
supporting Microsoft's placing Microsoft's Hardware Key in all
x86 computers sold for home use lenovo and Dell.

I cannot guarantee that any particular negotiation with Lenovo,
nor with Dell, will succeed.  But certainly negotiating only with
ourselves, without even trying to negotiate with Lenovo/Dell,
will result in a loss for us.


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