Schedule for Monday's FESCo Meeting (2012-06-18)

Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell at
Sun Jun 17 17:59:59 UTC 2012

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient at> wrote:
> That's simply not possible. Some processes like dbus-daemon and
> gnome-session just cannot be restarted in this way. It's a complete
> fallacy to believe you can update core libraries on a modern Linux
> system without rebooting.

I upgraded running systems from a.out to elf and from libc to glibc
without shutting down.

Okay, init itself is a bit tricky, but it also basically does nothing
on a running system so the problems in upgrading it are not especially

And now some mere userspace daemons mean users will constantly need to
reboot for upgrades?

Regressions against featuresets from the '70s and '80s are pretty unfortunate.

This is starting to sound like evidence of a serious design flaw in
some of these daemons. I find that unfortunate because I really like

(And the "you can manually force it", seems not much of a consolation
to me— since that will be untested, unsupported, and very likely

If we ask the question— retrospectively, if we knew that eventually
the acceptance of systemd (or newer dbus-daemon) would have ultimately
resulted in needing to reboot for updates would we have accepted it?
I think the answer is pretty clearly No.

If slippery slope arguments are to be dismissed when they're used
against new features like systemd (or Wayland or whatever), then
Fedora really does need to draw a line in the sand and say no to bad
effects when they crop up.

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