*countable infinities only

Jay Sulzberger jays at panix.com
Mon Jun 18 04:33:19 UTC 2012

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Gerald Henriksen <ghenriks at gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:01:53 -0400, you wrote:
> >On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59 at srcf.ucam.org> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 07:54:17PM -0400, Seth Johnson wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Am 17.06.2012 01:14, schrieb Chris Murphy:
> >>> >> Please provide an example of a better option, with sufficient detail as to constitute a successful relay of the baton.
> >>> >> The point of the thread from the outset was to explore alternatives, but so far those alternatives are vaporware.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Numerous non-vaporware recommendations follow, snipped directly from the thread:
> >>
> >> (snip)
> >>
> >> These suggestions boil down to:
> >>
> >> 1) Do nothing
> >> 2) Become a hardware vendor
> >> 3) Use a Fedora key
> >>
> >> None of these solve the problem of getting Fedora onto arbitrary x86
> >> hardware bought towards the end of this year.
> >
> >
> >Which one is the "do nothing" alternative?
> Most of them.
> As much as the proposed solution may suck to some, none of the
> suggestions made in this thread are serious.

Of course, I am serious.

> Vague ideas about protests will do nothing because the public doesn't
> care (and this has nothing do with this specifically, protests in
> general accomplish nothing most of the time).

My idea is not vague.

> Ideas of legal action are doomed because it will take far too long and
> too much money, and likely fail anyway.  The idea the DOJ may take an
> interest is a joke given the current political climate.

No.  Sometimes, like Project GNU, like the Linux kernel, like Red
Hat, things take time.  But if we do not start, why then yes,
nothing would ever get done.

> Come some point this fall all new hardware will come with secure boot
> enabled, because none of the vendors can afford to not have the
> Windows 8 certification on their products.  There is nothing Red Hat,
> Fedora, or anyone else in the Linux community can do to prevent this.

Your declaration of complete hopelessness is useful in this
discussion.  It is useful because of its clarity:

   "There is nothing Red Hat, Fedora, or anyone else in the Linux
   community can do to prevent this."

Allow me please to directly contradict you:

  Of course there have been successful campaigns of resistance
  to illegitimate authority and unjust rule.

  The United States of America was founded as the successful result
  of decades of resistance, and eventually war.

  The United States of America fought the Civil War, and the Union
  won, and the system of slavery lost.

  And massive protests helped pass the Civil Right Acts of 1964 and 1968.

  And RMS started Project GNU and Project GNU got Emacs for Unices,
  gcc, bash, and other utilities written.  And Linus Torvalds
  started the Linux kernel and manages the kernel today.  And Red
  Hat was founded by several people who had no money to speak of,
  and today Red Hat is a decent sized company.

Your argument would demonstrate that the United States does not
exist, that the slavocracy continues in the South, that gcc does
not exist, that the Linux kernel does not exist, and that
certainly Red Hat, and therefore Fedora too, does not exist.


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