Support for legacy init script actions for systemd services

"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" johannbg at
Tue Jun 26 23:24:52 UTC 2012

On 06/26/2012 10:12 PM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> What is "this"?

Sorry meant to say "this is"

There are maybe a handful of services that need this hence the 
precaution clause so packagers/maintainers simply don't choose to do 
exactly what Bill was referring to in "3)"

> Breaking "service foo action" reason was just an unnecessary
> regression that shouldn't have happened in the first place.  But given
> the history and the length of time that has passed, I'd say that
> whether to restore this functionality now is up to individual package
> maintainers.

Agreed and honestly this sudden turnaround now smells a bit like RHEL 
"7" was a big contributing factor to that decision since this has been a 
know problem from the start..

> Asking upstreams to "adopt" things that used to be done in
> distributions (and therefore were consistent within a distribution)
> without suggesting a good convention to follow (suggesting a high
> probability that they will not be consistent, and distributions will
> not be "allowed" to make them consistent) sounds like a change for the
> worse from the original state (it is, after all, one of the primary
> roles of a distribution to collect various differing upstreams and
> make a consistent OS from them) - but, well, the result will not be
> different from any other inter-project inconsistencies, so I don't
> view this as a "problem".  To the extent that systemd initiated this
> change, perhaps the convention should be suggested somewhere within
> the systemd project, ideally with input from distributions?

I would rather argue that various upstreams should reach agreement on 
how things should properly be done and moved forward and distribution 
downstream to the relevant upstream should adopt that rather then the 
other way around since the likely hood of that input you refer they 
should do will actually never make it out of the distribution due to 
distribution politics .

The /etc/sysconfig/foo and /etc/default/bar file problem which is 
explained in a bit more detail here [1] is perfect example on how 
distributions will never manage to agree amongst themselves to propose 
or provide input *together* because more often then not each 
distribution has a tendency to think that their way is the *right* way.

I should mentioned in relevance to the above example that I have yet to 
find an upstream maintainer that disagrees with the elimination of that 
difference between distributions and that elimination will never come to 
be until we stop exercise that administrators muscle memory Bill was 
referring to.

I'm pretty sure that this administrators muscle memory which has been 
referred to no longer exist amongst the administrators in the Fedora 
project since we have had the initial release that systemd got accepted 
in gone EOL and just for the Lennart haters that exist out there I 
should mention that *every* bug got addressed and fixed by the systemd 
team during F15 lifecycle.

>> >Secondly cant we add the rule that packager are required to request
>> >permission from fesco to follow what is suggested before they implement it
>> >so it can be ensured that it's actually required/necessary for them to do
>> >this
> Is there any reason to forbid any implementation that follows the best
> practices above?  And a reason to require special dispensation instead
> of relying on the regular review process?

My concern are exactly the same as Bill mentions in item three on his list.

>> >and at the same time a list gets created and populated with the
>> >relevant packages?
> What would be the purpose of such a list?




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