*countable infinities only

Gerry Reno greno at verizon.net
Thu May 31 18:21:43 UTC 2012


On 05/31/2012 02:17 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Gerry Reno <greno at verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 05/31/2012 01:57 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Gerry Reno <greno at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:48 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gerry Reno <greno at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:34 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gerry Reno <greno at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:19 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Gerry Reno <greno at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:10 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gerry Reno <greno at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could be any of a thousand ways to implement this.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it checks the BIOS to determine whether some SecureBoot flag is set.
>>>>>>>>>>> While it pains me to argue with someone on my side— you're incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>>> The compromised system would just intercept and emulate or patch out that test.
>>>>>>>>>> Then what's missing here is a way for booted OS's to test themselves for integrity.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe some sort of cryptographic signature stored in the hardware?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <ducks>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> </sarcasm>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just not dictated by one monopoly.
>>>>>>> Ideally, no.  But you see the problem.  I'm divided on the solution
>>>>>>> myself, but I've yet to see one I feel better about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This game of cat and mouse with the blackhats is not going to end until we have some type of read-only partitions where
>>>>>> known good code resides.
>>>>> We have that, ISO9660.  Known good == known good to whom?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Nah, can't be iso.
>>>>
>>>> Has to be HDD partitions whose ro/rw state is controlled by hardware.
>>> Which brings us back to the issue of how the hardware knows what to
>>> trust for that ro/rw state.
>> The hardware is under control of the user.
>>
>> At some point the user has to know what they consider trusted.
>>
>> During installation from a known good installation source: DVD, network, whatever, the user enables the install to write
>> on the partition by actively pressing a hardware button that allows the write.   After the installation is finished the
>> user switches it back to read-only through pressing the hardware button.
>>
>> The user now has a known good read-only installation to boot from.
> Is there an implementation of this existing today for HDD?
Not yet.  But HDD technology is changing rapidly.  Just look at hybrid drives, SSD.

No reason they could not add this capability.

>   Because
> otherwise with existing technology, AFAIK, that limits your media
> choices for root fs medium to CD/DVD-R, Floppy, Zip/Jaz disc, or some
> models of USB flash drive.
Yes, all these would currently support what I'm suggesting.

>
> Some of these would work better than others. :)
>
> -J
>
>



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